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Discussion Starter #1
Like most collectors of Indian Wars era martial revolvers I try to collect period issued martial ammo. Over the years I've managed to acquire the following boxes representing the Frankford Arsenal 44 cal and 45 cal boxes issued up until the 45 Colt loadings for the Model 1909 DA.



The boxes include 44 cal loadings for the U.S. 1860 Army Conversion and the S&W 1st Model American, 45 cal boxes for 1873 through 1880 and 1882 and 2 post 1882 boxes for reloadable cartridges.

I'm unsure whether or not the collection includes all of the box styles FA issued during this period.

So please post pictures of any other martial box styles you may have from this period.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Yes. I have one open box of tinned cartridges.





The box is date stamp on the box top is gone but the cartridges are headstamped 9-92. The box is not marked as having tin plated cartridges. The style of the box is the same as the box on the lower right which which is sealed and date stamped 4-20-1887. I have 2 other sealed boxes of this style, one dated 2-5-1891 and the other 11-xx-1891.I beeve this style box is the last Black Powder style box the FA produced until it adopted and issued the Smokeless Powder 20 round 45 Revolver Ball Cartridges for Colt's DA Model of 1909. I think the production of these boxes ceased well before 1898, when the US determined to go for the 38 cal revolver. I haven't seen a later dated Black Powder box but I hope to see one in response to this thread.

These style boxes and its predecessor 1884 box (The 2nd from the bottom right) are more seldom encountered than the earlier boxes. This makes sense since these reloadable rounds would go first to units in the SAW and in the Philippines, leaving the stock of earlier BP boxes for collectors. In fact, the adequacy of th stores of the reloadable boxes became a concern to the Army in the early 1900's and it directed the FA to produce a SP round to succeed it for use with the Colt SAA's.

Yes this was Smokeless powder for the SAA and SP rounds were successfully tested in the SAA. Whether these tests were restricted to the Colt updated Artillery SAA's is not clear. The development of this SP ammo was before, and independent of, the trials and adoption of the Model 1909 DA.

In any event, the adoption of the SP rounds ultimately was combined with the adoption of the Model 1909. However, when adopted the use of this SP ammo was not expressly restricted to the use in the DA Colt. It was only after a year or so that the FA increased the diameter or the SP 45 Ball ammo to prevent its use in the Colt SAA. I do not have one of these early SP boxes but would love to find one.
 

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For the un-informed, what are SP cartridges and why would they eventually be restricted to use in DA revolvers only?
 

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Wow, amazing info Mr. Rush. Wonderful cartridge collection too. Being a fan of the SAA and the M1909, I always wondered how the .45 military ammunition evolved with the coming of SP. I figured things were transitional as old BP stocks took some time to deplete. The SAA does not appear to go away overnight and must have required the US and FA to make more ammunition for them in smokeless powder.

Therefore, SP cartridges were produced with small rims for use in the older artillery SAA's before the introduction of the M1909. I wonder how many artillery SAA's were still in service after the introduction of the .38 caliber M1892 revolver and before the .45 caliber M1909 revolver? There must have been enough for FA to test and produce the small rimmed SP ammo you refer to.
 

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Mr. Rush. Here is my small collection of .45 Frankfort Arsenal ammo (the acp are U.S.C.C.). The boxes are shrink wrapped so didn't photo well. The information I provided was taken from the labels I put on the backs after shrink wrapping them years ago and I think the labels may have covered the manufacture date on the tinned cartridges. I didn't want to unwrap them to look. I have loose cartridges of all of these and more if there is an interest in seeing them. Regards, keith.
 
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