[Doug.38PR]

Think revolvers are "outdated" and gone for good? Or will they make a big comeback

It's often said by most people, cop and civilian alike, that revolvers are "outdated" and are "a thing of the past" Most of these people don't realize that the Double Action Revolver Pistol and the Semi Automatic Pistol are not too far apart in terms of age. Furthermore, many of these same people will respond by saying "well we have high capacity guns now" not realizing also that high capacity guns have been around since 1935 with the Browning Hi Power (and it didn't even have any kind of market in the US until the 1950s and didn't gain any kind of real following until the 1980s). They'll then say "well criminals are better armed now" forgetting that criminals have been armed to the teeth in the past with gangsters like John Dillinger, Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow and mobsters with Al Capone and other mafia thugs armed with BARs, Tommy Guns and 1911 pistols. Much more than I can say for the average crackhead of today.

All things considered, nothing has REALLY changed in terms of weapons technological effectiveness (although bullet designs have in some ways improved....but then the "old school" FBI Load in .38 Special still reigns king compared to "modern" .38 hollowpoint bullets). The only thing, as I see it, that has really changed is the culture. This mindset of "more means better" and that the style needs to look "new" and we take our model off of what we see and experience in movies and television. If an idea is over 20 years old, it's "outdated". Doesn't matter if it's right, just that it's "old".

Well, one day the world I think will swing back the other way and realize that speed kills, old people are wiser, history has more to teach than we think and revolvers means Six for Sure and the polymer semi-automatic fad will die out or at least retract into moderation.

 

[Doug.38PR]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised, when the cultural mindset starts settling down, service revolvers make a come back even in LEOs. Especially in places where LEOS can choose their own weapon and/or departments let up on their mandates that everyone "must have a semiauto" for the reasons I stated in original post.

 

[Doug.38PR]

The revolver is a dead letter in law enforcement, .

. I'm not so sure it will stay that way simply because the reality is they are not, and never were, outdated and see just as useful and effective today as they were in 1950. Just as more people are realizing gun control doesn't work than 20 years ago sooner or later the culture will mature again and realize this (among other things)

 

[Doug.38PR]

Autos are cheaper. Standardized firearms save departments mega dollars. Plastic service autos are cheaper to maintain. Your post is a pipe dream sir. I carry revolvers often but if I was in charge of a budget for a dept. they would all carry the same firearm that combined cost savings on purchase, reliable service, easy to maintain, cheap to maintain. This would not be a revolver, sorry.

Where I come from, a lot of police can or are even required to purchase their own gun. That saves even more money as far as tax dollars go.

 

[Doug.38PR]

That is just awesome. So you have Officer Joe with a .357, Officer Jane with a .44 Special and Officer Biden with a good ole Double Barrel Coach Gun. I hope they all are hauling around a lot of extra ammo with them on their person. Seriously though, it just makes sense all the way around for a dept to be uniformly armed.

On paper maybe so. But, it seems to have worked down here for decades for police to choose what they want and carry and what they are comfortable with. But funny you should bring that up. I was talking to a former deputy sheriff from Texas just the other day who is managing an area of our landcrew. Like myself he prefers revolvers. He carried a Ruger Service Six .357 Magnum. One of his partners carried a .44 Magnum M-29. He attended some kind of meeting in Dallas where some "expert" was telling all these agencies that semi-autos are better and/or everybody should be armed with the same kind of weapon. Whereas he inquired "why?" The "expert" explained "suppose you've got a .357 and your partner has a .44. Y'all are in a shootout, he runs out of ammo. You can't give him any of your ammo because you have two different guns."
The deputy replied: "He's got 6 rounds in his gun, 12 on his belt in speedloaders. If he can't take care of business in 18 rounds....he's not getting any of mine."

 

[Doug.38PR]

However, it's hard to argue with semi autos when it's widely accepted that most people shoot better with a DA semi auto than they do with a DA revolver.

Well, in my experience, those "most people" group you refer to when I have occasion to chat with them about getting a gun or owning a gun their first instinct (knowing nothing about guns really) is to get an automatic. They have to have an automatic. "I was thinking about getting a glock because my friend old me that's what all the police carry." or "I was talking to a cop who's a friend of my brother who said Glock is the way to go" or "I was thinking some kind of 9mm because that doesn't have as much recoil as the .40 that 'all the cops' carry" and when you simply ask "what about a revolver?" They look at you like you just said something in Chinese. Because semi-automatics are all they are exposed to in our culture.

My fiance had never fired a gun except for her father's deer rifle at age 5 (after which, for some reason, she wasn't too eager to do it again). I introduced her to the Colt Official Police and Colt Detective Special. She likes them. I introduced her to the S&W Model 15. She likes it. I introduced her to Single Action revolvers (she likes them....except the Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk .44 magnum because the barrel almost bumped her in the forehead). I introduced her to the Colt Python. She liked it (when loaded with non magnum loads) I introduced her to the 1911 .45 ACP....she didn't care for it. I introduced her to the Beretta M9 9mm. She didn't care for it. I showed her my friend's Glock 9mm. "that's ugly!" she says. Semi Automatics she doesn't care for. She loves the Detective Special and wants one of her own one day. (and I plan on getting her one in.....naaa she might see this post, I want to surprise her)


EDIT: Another side note on this that I've noticed is that currently made revolvers really DO have horrible DA design. WAY too tight, WAY too clunky compared to the guns I'm used to collecting and handling. Friend of mine brought over a S&W governor and neither me nor my fiance liked the DA trigger pull. Gun companies need to really rethink this manufacturing defect.

 

[Doug.38PR]

That's very nice nostalgia, but it proves, what? Nothing.

Proves that it doesn't necessarily make sense for everybody to use the same thing and scenarios don't necessarily reflect real life

 

[Doug.38PR]

Doug, most of us here are experienced pistoleros (that doesnt mean world class, it means what it describes. experienced).If we are going to discuss the merits of revolvers over semi autos here we might as well discard what beginners think about revolvers and semi autos - and "movie guns". It doesn't logically relate to the majority of forum members or our levels of experience. It has very little bearing to your initial theory, at least here on this forum and in this thread, even if you did start it. I agree that some people choose guns because they are blinded by dumb movies. They buy breeds of dogs based on dumb movies, too. It can't be denied, but I also think most people who stick with guns over a longer period of time outgrow the infatuation with a movie gun, and will eventually wind up with a gun that is practical for them (as you touched on) unless the movie gun is right for them and they are proficient with it. We cannot assume they will always stick with the gun because "James Bond" carried one, or some such fictional hogwash. How do we know that you aren't more favorable towards revolvers because of older movie influences that stoked your imagination, just by example? The anecdote about the local cops with the revolvers really doesn't prove anything, despite your displeasure with my remark. We're talking design, tactics, ease of maintenance, durability, & consumer cost, not about romanticism, nostalgia, and emotion or a few cops personal choices. The only relevant points about revolvers trumping the many features of modern semi auto pistols, is ease of usage. That one is notable but again, more important for the novice than to most experienced shooters. Yeah, you can always see that the revolver is loaded. That's great, but careful gun handling trumps that one. too. As far as introducing novice shooters to handgunning with a revolver, this has been dogma for at least 60 years and I think it's safe to say that most of us agree with this for the obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean one has to stick with revolvers - unless they want to. That's fine, but not when we are discussing the fine points of design, ergonomics, practicality and low maintence. The best reason for introducing a novice to handgun shooting with a revolver is the revolver's relative simplicity in handling and safety aspects, and to get the novice comfortable with noise, recoil, and muzzle flash associated with controlled explosions. Semi autos have various design systems and reinforcing safe handling becomes more complex with a semi autoi. That's about it. Citing the novice falls short in logic. Next you'll be saying we have novice members. True, but not nearly the majority of members.Here's an example of experience choosing a semi auto, even thought it's not a top shelf one. Our esteemed Judge Colt daily carries a plastic pistol, the KelTec P-11. Check some of his posts. He's a realist as well as a nostalgic collector, as am I. I also have a KelTec P-11 but it's not a favorite of mine and I don't have to wear a suit all day and carry a document case on top of it. Do you really think short of a legal ban of semi autos that the masses will return to the revolver in any great numbers? I cannot believe you do so, despite your opening remark, and I quote" one day the world I think will swing back the other way and realize that speed kills, old people are wiser, history has more to teach than we think and revolvers means Six for Sure and the polymer semi-automatic fad will die out or at least retract into moderation." Do you honestly believe this? As another member said to you, "sir, I think you are dreaming." You've got to be kidding us. We might as well go back to flintlock pistols and revolvers because we like them, certainly not because of self defense issues. Let any individual shoot and carry any type of gun he chooses and feels most proficient with, but please don't start a thread saying semi autos will fade and revolvers will be back, unless you anticipate the govt. banning semi autos. Lets re equip our military and police with old time firearms! Then we can watch our enemies and local criminals laugh their heads off while they mow most of us down.

. See you're illustrating my point. You are arguing from the assumption that revolvers are outdated and no longer a serious weapon compared to semi autos.And I'm not talking about new shooters necessarily being influenced by movies, its just thst , due the mainstream gun culture that they get their interest in guns ftom , they think semi autos are what there is and that is THE category to choose from. Or if they do happen to be exposed to a revolver its some horrible clunky tight DA that Academy sells by Taurus, ruger or rossi

 

[Doug.38PR]

I give up, you win Doug. I did not say revolvers were out dated I said they were lethal and still viable. Please read the label.
I stated logic and you stated emotion. And, you specifically mentioned new shooters, and movie influence, before I did. How you blithely ignore your own previous comments is amusing.
Have it your way, but read what majority of posts say, and - you are outgunned, in more ways than one
Out.

I'm sorry. Maybe I misunderstood you then. Why did you say this in your last post:

Do you honestly believe this? As another member said to you, "sir, I think you are dreaming." You've got to be kidding us. We might as well go back to flintlock pistols and revolvers because we like them, certainly not because of self defense issues. Let any individual shoot and carry any type of gun he chooses and feels most proficient with, but please don't start a thread saying semi autos will fade and revolvers will be back, unless you anticipate the govt. banning semi autos. Lets re equip our military and police with old time firearms! Then we can watch our enemies and local criminals laugh their heads off while they mow most of us down.

And I'm not ignoring my own comments. Yes movies have had a big influence overall in the semi-auto craze of our day.

But my last post I was talking about people who aren't necessarily action blow-up-the-world movie fans (or they may very well be) but are interested in getting a gun for concealed carry or home defense. Girls or guys that just want "something" to keep in the car or in the drawer. Or maybe get a gun, take the CHL course, and for whatever excuse never send the paperwork in (I can think of only one friend out of everyone I know that has taken the course in the past 8 years that followed through and sent the paperwork in for their CHL)

Anyway, the overall culture around them, movies or tv and the gun culture they see when they enter a range for the first time or walk into Academy for the first time often gears them towards Semi Automatics. The friends they have that are gun people are all into Semi-Autos. Some of them do get cheap 5 shot Charter arms or Rossi or Taurus .38 Spl. (with horrible clunky tight action that might give them a bad taste) if it's under the glass at Academy or they may take the advice of the guy behind the counter and get the Tupperware that he says all the "real shooters" carry (though of course, not entirely). But most of them have never really been exposed to a revolver. Like I said, most of these people hear "revolver" and they think you just said something in Chinese.

 

[Doug.38PR]

I believe that you and Doug think I am arguing against the revolver, I am not. I am telling you that from a modern litigation happy, bean counting, training, supply simplifying stand point it will never happen. Most departments only provide adequate training to protect themselves in a legal challenge. Most of the time when I carry a revolver I do not take more than one reload with me, I get it. If I need more than that I probably put myself in a bad situation I should have been smart enough to avoid. Again, I do not think that the revolver is outdated to use in almost any survival type role, but I do not think you are going to get any major dept, or the public at large to go, as most would consider it, "backwards".

I hear what you're saying. I'm just saying that considering it "backwards" may fade away with time, as impossible as that may seem to us now. I understand about the costs and what a lot of departments consider as being frugal. At the same time there are a lot of departments, at least down here in the South, that have each man buy his own weapon and supplies. Now, it's true, now most young guys that have their pick don't carry revolvers but they still have the option if they ever desire. And in time, the culture as a whole may rethink a few things.

Just think: 40 years ago most police didn't allow Hollow Point bullets. It was deemed a "murderer's bullet" at worst or something to get sued over at best. With time this has reversed. Now it's considered not only ideal but safer to use (less chance of overpenetration) than LRN or ball ammo

 

[Doug.38PR]

Well said dabney. If you're in a situation where you need more "firepower" you don't want any handgun, you want a rifle or a shotgun. When FBI and local and state police were pursuing the likes of Bonnie & Clyde, John Dillinger, Baby Face Nelson, etc., they didn't scramble for massive orders of the Browning Hi Power 9mm with it's high capacity 13 round magazine (that gun didn't even become widely available on the U.S. market until the 1950s and then not even in high demand until the 1980s with the rest of the "wondernines" that everyone sees now), they scrambled for Thompson Submachine guns, they scrambled for Shotguns, they scrambled for Browning Automatic Rifles.


People back then were not stupid, they just understood things modern culture doesn't. Contrast that with the FBI agents in Miami in 1986 armed with only handguns and A shotgun who went after two psychos armed to the teeth with long guns.....and then said "we need 'better handguns'" (and shot placement from a revolver ended the situation)

 

[Doug.38PR]

i love my colt revolvers for their looks and reliability. and here is some news; i spoke to the colt factory regarding some work they are doing on a 1911 of mine, and i was told to expect an announcement in 2014 concerning the return of colt double action revolvers to the colt lineup

I have to send one of my revolvers in for a tuneup, maybe I'll do that and, while doing so, in inquire further.

IF it happens and IF it has scandium and/or plastic frames instead of solid steel I will be very disappointed.

IF it has a lock on it I will never buy Colt again