Colt Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Around here pistol powder is as hard to find as 22lr. So one of the shops had quite a bit of Hodgdon Tightwad so I got a pound to test in my Gold Cup. 3.5gr behind a Saeco 200gr SWC grouped about the same as the w231 I had been using. I can find data for the 45acp and 9mm (haven't tried it in my 9mm yet). I was wondering if anyone had any info for a 38spcl loading. From my experience most powders run similar charges between the 9mm and the 38spcl. Pressure for same charge weight should be less in the 38 due to the extra case volume?? If I can't find any data I am considering working my own load up with a start charge in the 3gr range and go from there. I have never deviated from a load manual and am wondering if my logic is sound before I proceed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
Your Logic sounds good to me.

Indeed, to my understanding, the same Charge in .38 Special and in 9 mm P-'08, would produce much less pressure in the larger Case volume of the .38 Special ( assuming the Bullet is Lead and most importantly, is seated to a normal depth ).

Charges listed for 9 mm P-'08 also tended to be the same or about the same as those Charges listed for .38 ACP back when, where, in the latter, the Bullet was heavier, the Case volume quite a bit larger, and, the pressures realized, much less than in the 9mm.



I tried a few fast 'Googles' and apparently it is 'Titewad' rather than 'Tightwad', and, it is said to be about on par with 'Bullseye' for Burn rate, and, it is offered and sold a Shotgun Powder.

So, one thing which comes to mind for me, is that it may not ignite reliably in .38 Special, particularly as one would only be using quite a little dab of it in what at that point, in a fairly large Case Volume for that tiny dab to be settled down onto the lower part of, and likely settled down mostly below the Primer Hole.

It might be a better bet to work up a Load for deeper-seated heavier DEWC Bullets, than for conventional shape kinds of Bullets in .38 Special.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
The only information I found was on Hodgon site that says it is a 12 Gauge shotgun powder. It is extremely fast burning. Rated as # 3 on their burn rate charge. Faster than Red Dot which is faster than Bullseye.

Purusing their load data, I see no mention of it at all in9mm,38sp or 45ACP. The only data I see for Norma R1,the fastest on their burn rate chart is about 3 gr for the 38 sp, 158 gr lead. So I sure would not be starting with anything over that.

I saw no correlation between the 9mm and 38 as the 9mm is usually loaded in the 125 gr bullet weight class and the 38, is 158 gr. Even comparing 125 gr class, I see no direction comparison of powders .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,204 Posts
I checked the Hogdon site, and there are no loadings listed for 38 Special and Titewad. IMO when a powder company doesn't show a loading for a particular powder in a caliber as popular as 38 Special, it tells me that it doesn't consider it a suitable powder for that caliber. I've always taken a pretty conservative approach to reloading, and while I've experimented with loads, I've always started with some published data.

Powder is cheap; I strongly suggest that you keep the Titewad for you ACP, and find something more suitable for the .38.

Best regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
It may well be too 'fast' for practical application on what originally were Black Powder Revolver Cartridges ( such as .38 special ) or, for early, 'longer' Cartridges of some Automatics.

If it is faster than 'Bullseye', I'd say, it is too fast for me anyway!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
Around here pistol powder is as hard to find as 22lr. So one of the shops had quite a bit of Hodgdon Tightwad so I got a pound to test in my Gold Cup. 3.5gr behind a Saeco 200gr SWC grouped about the same as the w231 I had been using. I can find data for the 45acp and 9mm (haven't tried it in my 9mm yet). I was wondering if anyone had any info for a 38spcl loading. From my experience most powders run similar charges between the 9mm and the 38spcl. Pressure for same charge weight should be less in the 38 due to the extra case volume?? If I can't find any data I am considering working my own load up with a start charge in the 3gr range and go from there. I have never deviated from a load manual and am wondering if my logic is sound before I proceed.

You ought to be able to get any Power you want via Mail Order...

I got all mine that way, and never even bothered with local sources.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,411 Posts
I would suggest that you contact Hodgdon by phone and ask your question. Their loading website, while quite extensive, is only a small part of the loading data they have. I have been able to find some unusual loads as well as some "stay far way from" loads. An example of the latter is International Clays which exhibits some greatly non-linear buring behavior versus charge weight in some popular handgun cartridges. Don't extrapolate any load outside known data unless you like blowing up expensive guns with possible injuries or death. Just sayin'.

Buck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
I would suggest that you contact Hodgdon by phone and ask your question. Their loading website, while quite extensive, is only a small part of the loading data they have. I have been able to find some unusual loads as well as some "stay far way from" loads. An example of the latter is International Clays which exhibits some greatly non-linear buring behavior versus charge weight in some popular handgun cartridges. Don't extrapolate any load outside known data unless you like blowing up expensive guns with possible injuries or death. Just sayin'.

Buck
I prefer somewhat bulky Powders myself...

Black Powder being my favorite of course!

In fact, Black Powder makes for a very nice .38 Special Loading, and, will deliver just about the same Velocities as most off the shelf standard Loads in Smokeless.

The more I brood on this, the more I would be leery of using 'Titewad' for .38 Special, unless some really definite info from Hodgson happens to show it is 'Okay' to do, and, provides Load Data for doing so.

Which, I kinda doubt will occur, since it is such a 'fast' Powder and all...it is not likely to behave well in the .38 Special Cartridge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Here is newer Hodgon Burn Rate chart for the faster powders. Notice that Titewad is Number 6 and Bullseye is Number 13. Gives you and idea of how fast burning Titewad really is.
1NORMA R1
2Winchester WAALite
3VihtaVuori N310
4Accurate Arms Nitro 100
5Alliant e3
6Hodgdon TITEWAD
7Ramshot Competition
8Alliant Red Dot
9Alliant Promo
10Hodgdon CLAYS
11Alliant Clay Dot
12IMR, Co Hi-Skor 700-X
13Alliant Bullseye
14Hodgdon TITEGROUP
15Alliant American Select
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
Here is newer Hodgon Burn Rate chart for the faster powders. Notice that Titewad is Number 6 and Bullseye is Number 13. Gives you and idea of how fast burning Titewad really is.
1NORMA R1
2Winchester WAALite
3VihtaVuori N310
4Accurate Arms Nitro 100
5Alliant e3
6Hodgdon TITEWAD
7Ramshot Competition
8Alliant Red Dot
9Alliant Promo
10Hodgdon CLAYS
11Alliant Clay Dot
12IMR, Co Hi-Skor 700-X
13Alliant Bullseye
14Hodgdon TITEGROUP
15Alliant American Select
Isn't that interesting!

I wonder where 'Unique' would fall on this list...

No. 27 or so maybe? Or..? ( Even though 'Unique' is not a Hodgson product ).


Are there 'Master Lists' for Burn Rates, which include Powders made by differing Companies?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Yes, for the master list, go to the Hodgdon website and you can find the Burn Rate Chart . I think it is listed on the left hand side. Takes a little looking around to find it. I printed it out today ( there is a printable PDF version there).

Go to Hodgdon.com Home. Then click on Data ( drop down menu) and you will see Burn Rate.

Or just Google Hodgdon and you will see the Burn Rate as a sub topic when Hodgdon comes up.

It has all the powder MFGR that I know of.

Unique is 31, W231 is 29 and Hodgdon Universal Clays is 32. I don't use Unique, but switch back and forth between Universal Clays and W231 in a .357 target load of 4.5 gr of either with a 158gr cast. There isn't much difference and that isn't close to a max load .

I'm low on The UC ,but have 10-12 lbs of W231.

Universal Clays is a lot cleaner though. Just don't get it mixed up with Clays or International Clays as they are both faster.

See if this link works.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates_121211.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Just Started Reloading and have been using Titewad

I started reloading last year to shoot cowboy action. I started loading 45 LC with Trail Boss but could not find any last year but bought a 8 lb Jug of Titewad. There was load data for 45 ACP and 9mm. I played around and ended up using 3.5 grains with 200 gn LCSWC for my 45 LC pistol loads and 4.5 grains for my 45 LC rifle. Not much powder in a large case but go bang every time. I also use it for my shotgun shells. I've used CCI and Winchester large pistol primers. Both work fine. I also load 45 ACP with a 200 gn LCSWC using 4.5 grains and they work great in my Para 1911. I loaded up some 9mm with 124gn LCRN using 2.9. They would not recoil out of my Ruger P95. I loaded max loads 3.5 grains and they would not recoil either. Decided it just won't work in 9mm. I went clear up to 4.0 grains with the same result.

I will continue using Titewad (If anyone has some for sale I'll buy it) for 45 LC and 45 ACP. I switched to some Green Dot which I got from my cousin for the 9mm. It was made by Hercules Powder in 1981. 4.2 grains works great for 9mm.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top