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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone here familiar with the assassination of the Romanov's?
There were some arguments over the 1911 that Yurovsky used was a Commercial model or a USP marked Colt.
I always knew Yurovsky used C71905.
Here is USP No.71905 and it sounds like it was stolen from the Army in Vietnam and all the markings removed and restamped with S&W markings.
 

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Interesting................If true..............

However, the last picture ( Collecting Texas ) in the link looking from the muzzle down the LH side of the slide shows that "Smith & Wesson" is not level ( parallel to the bottom of the slide) on the slide. I wonder how that error escaped the setup in the S&W Custom shop, and did anyone complain or make note of it..............

MattLF9, unless I missed it,............how does Tsar Nicholas or any Romanov relate to this pistol?............I don't see any mention of that.

Tom
 

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"I always knew Yurovsky used C71905."

Matt- what is your source for this identification of the pistol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_the_Romanov_family

"Yurovsky and Pavel Medvedev collected 14 handguns to use that night, comprising two Browning pistols, two American Colts, two Mauser's, one Smith and Wesson and seven Nagants."
 

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I do not know the story of C71905, but it would have been a commercial Government Model. The Russian Government purchased, 51,100 Government Models that were delivered from 1/19/1916 through 1/18/1917, with serial numbers in the ranges of C23000 through C89000. The main identifier of these pistols is the cyrillic letters stamped on the left side of the frame that roughly translate to "English Order".
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
In the past there was some debate over whether a Commercial model or a USP Colt was used.
Nobody knew if this USP 1911 was still around and it was never in Russia.
Just saying for the record here is the US army 71905.
Now where is C71905?
 

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One has to ask how any assasination pistol not seized at the time could be identified by a serial number. One has to ask oneself how any pistol used in Russia for anything prior to 1920 returned miraculously to the USA where it was made. Did Oswald bring it back?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
One has to ask how any assasination pistol not seized at the time could be identified by a serial number. One has to ask oneself how any pistol used in Russia for anything prior to 1920 returned miraculously to the USA where it was made. Did Oswald bring it back?
You might be missing the point.
What I'm saying is that this is NOT the Colt Yurovsky used.
By me locating this particular 1911 here in the states and it being in possession of the US military all the way up to the Vietnam conflict almost certainly proves it was not the Colt used in the assassination which is sometimes confused with the real Colt with the almost same serial number as this one.
Yurovsky recounted his serial number was "71905" but he forgot that it would have had a C-prefix which means it was a commercial model and part of the 51,100 pistols in the Russian contract.
And again the pistol in the link I added IS NOT THE GUN USED IN THE ASSASSINATION.
 

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Looks like an early 60's bulleye pistol, are their any marks from the gunsmith and who made the frame, barrel, slide etc. Might be a really nice shooting pistol.
 

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Anyone here familiar with the assassination of the Romanov's?
There were some arguments over the 1911 that Yurovsky used was a Commercial model or a USP marked Colt.
I always knew Yurovsky used C71905.
Here is USP No.71905 and it sounds like it was stolen from the Army in Vietnam and all the markings removed and restamped with S&W markings.
I understand you have not answered the question posed by the other member regarding the basis for your definitive knowledge. "Always knew," infers direct and personal knowledge from the instant of the use to the present. Otherwise, you have a suspicion or a hunch. You suspect the gun in the auction was stolen from the United States. You suspect the gun in the auction was in possession of the United States up until some time during the Vietnam conflict. You suspect the gun in the auction is not the gun used in the assasination. You suspect some or all of these suspicions are proof of something.

I will rephrase my earlier curiosity this way:

How does anyone make a positive identification of any of the weapon(s) present at that scene in 1918 absent physical presense at the scene?

I do not think I missed the point. I think I saw an answer to a softball and an attempt to ignore unnoticed the hardball.

You might be missing the point.
What I'm saying is that this is NOT the Colt Yurovsky used.
By me locating this particular 1911 here in the states and it being in possession of the US military all the way up to the Vietnam conflict almost certainly proves it was not the Colt used in the assassination which is sometimes confused with the real Colt with the almost same serial number as this one.
Yurovsky recounted his serial number was "71905" but he forgot that it would have had a C-prefix which means it was a commercial model and part of the 51,100 pistols in the Russian contract.
And again the pistol in the link I added IS NOT THE GUN USED IN THE ASSASSINATION.
"I always knew Yurovsky used C71905."

Matt- what is your source for this identification of the pistol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_the_Romanov_family

"Yurovsky and Pavel Medvedev collected 14 handguns to use that night, comprising two Browning pistols, two American Colts, two Mauser's, one Smith and Wesson and seven Nagants."
I do not know the story of C71905, but it would have been a commercial Government Model. The Russian Government purchased, 51,100 Government Models that were delivered from 1/19/1916 through 1/18/1917, with serial numbers in the ranges of C23000 through C89000. The main identifier of these pistols is the cyrillic letters stamped on the left side of the frame that roughly translate to "English Order".
One thing which has been missed in all of this suspicion is the math. The serial number range described above could involve as many as 66000 pistols. Therefore.........
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Anyone here familiar with the assassination of the Romanov's?
There were some arguments over the 1911 that Yurovsky used was a Commercial model or a USP marked Colt.
I always knew Yurovsky used C71905.
Here is USP No.71905 and it sounds like it was stolen from the Army in Vietnam and all the markings removed and restamped with S&W markings.
I understand you have not answered the question posed by the other member regarding the basis for your definitive knowledge. "Always knew," infers direct and personal knowledge from the instant of the use to the present. Otherwise, you have a suspicion or a hunch. You suspect the gun in the auction was stolen from the United States. You suspect the gun in the auction was in possession of the United States up until some time during the Vietnam conflict. You suspect the gun in the auction is not the gun used in the assasination. You suspect some or all of these suspicions are proof of something.

When I said "I knew" I meant it as a figure of speech.
And if the guy brought it back from Vietnam I assumed it was his service weapon and you weren't supposed to take them home with you.

I will rephrase my earlier curiosity this way:

How does anyone make a positive identification of any of the weapon(s) present at that scene in 1918 absent physical presense at the scene?

Google is an amazing tool.
There is a lot of first hand account info from the guys who were there that night.

I do not think I missed the point. I think I saw an answer to a softball and an attempt to ignore unnoticed the hardball.

You might be missing the point.
What I'm saying is that this is NOT the Colt Yurovsky used.
By me locating this particular 1911 here in the states and it being in possession of the US military all the way up to the Vietnam conflict almost certainly proves it was not the Colt used in the assassination which is sometimes confused with the real Colt with the almost same serial number as this one.
Yurovsky recounted his serial number was "71905" but he forgot that it would have had a C-prefix which means it was a commercial model and part of the 51,100 pistols in the Russian contract.
And again the pistol in the link I added IS NOT THE GUN USED IN THE ASSASSINATION.
"I always knew Yurovsky used C71905."

Matt- what is your source for this identification of the pistol?

Yurovsky quoted he used his Colt serial number "71905".
I don't remember where I read that but it's out there on the interwebs somewhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_the_Romanov_family

"Yurovsky and Pavel Medvedev collected 14 handguns to use that night, comprising two Browning pistols, two American Colts, two Mauser's, one Smith and Wesson and seven Nagants."
2 Colt 1911's were used that night and the one Medvedev used is in the museum of the revolution in Moscow.
Medvedev had it until he died in 1964 and it was willed to Nikita Khrushchev and from there I don't know how it got to the museum.
http://m.indiatoday.in/video/this-i...e-the-last-of-the-russian-tsars/1/911553.html

I do not know the story of C71905, but it would have been a commercial Government Model. The Russian Government purchased, 51,100 Government Models that were delivered from 1/19/1916 through 1/18/1917, with serial numbers in the ranges of C23000 through C89000. The main identifier of these pistols is the cyrillic letters stamped on the left side of the frame that roughly translate to "English Order".
One thing which has been missed in all of this suspicion is the math. The serial number range described above could involve as many as 66000 pistols. Therefore.........
The Russian contract pistols fall into that serial range.
Not all pistols in this serial range went to Russia.
Colt still had to make guns for the civilian market here too.
 
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