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I read recently that tens of thousands of guns in Mexico were traced and determined to have come from the U.S.
Does anyone know how guns can be traced? Maybe they were not traced but simply manufactured in the U.S.

I assume that drug organizations can obtain guns in large quantities from international gun dealers and do not need to acquire guns purchased in U.S. from small gun shops.


Mac
 

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You must have been reading Huffington Press. :rolleyes: Just Google Fast and Furious or look to the NRA sites and read up. :cool:
 

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Hometown newspaper, close to the border, reported seizure of 2 (maybe more) Barrett .50 cal weapons recently.
Usual press release from the Homeland Security folks with minor "editoralizing" about weapons whose only use is warfare, etc etc. .......

Citations available for inquiring minds.

rayb
 

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Mac, Your Federal Government has been aiding in smuggling guns south across the border. Our tax dollars at work.
 

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You have our GOVT involved in smuggling guns to Mexico and international Gun dealers.Blaming the honest citizens for the criminal acts of others is silly......Let's sue Columbia for every Cocaine overdose in the USA.If they weren't making and smuggling it than it wouldn't be here and those poor people would be alive......SUUURRREEE.JMHO
 

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Blaming the honest citizens for the criminal acts of others is silly
I very strongly agree, but

Let's sue Columbia for every Cocaine overdose in the USA.
you just did the same thing.

except you end you message with "SUUURRREEE", which could imply that your comments were ironical. I'm sure they are.

Boy, this whole criminalization of drugs things really gets my goat. Not saying drugs are good, but one distinguishing factor of law is that immoral does not equal criminal. If I snort cocaine (assume I obtained it from Santa Claus, so no bad people in the distribution chain), what HARM is done to others? No HARM, no crime. Just stupidity. But if we outlawed stupid...

It is like the moralizers are saying "these substances are so bad and so immoral that we will only let criminals provide them". Because people DO use drugs, despite laws, and if there is a market then there is a business.

Oh, slop. I hijacked the thread. Apologies!

Ok, back on track. The government sometimes does bad things. Remember Iran-Contra?

Fortunately we have a democracy, so we have some hope of holding them accountable. It takes a responsible and educated public, glad to find so many such folk on this forum.
 

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Many thousands of guns have entered Mexico over the decades - sold by manufacturers to distributors, "loaned" by the military, etc.

Unfortunately there is an illegal market of US guns flowing to Mexico - even discounting the BATFE's Gun Runner Operation (they really didn't need to do that - it ranks up there as dumb, really dumb and cost US lives). Whenever there is a chance for someone to make money you know that in many cases legal/illegal is not an issue.

There are guns flowing across the border illegally; that much is fact. Often times it is being done by people with a direct connection to the cartels, unfortunately the biased media neglects (as does the government in some of there reports) to mention this. There are crooks and they do buy or steal guns and take them to Mexico.
 

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I was being ironical in my second comment.Blaming us for Mexico's illegal guns is as silly as us suing Columbia for the people that overdose here.The honest people shouldn't be blamed for the actions of criminals pure and simple.
I very strongly agree, but



you just did the same thing.

except you end you message with "SUUURRREEE", which could imply that your comments were ironical. I'm sure they are.

Boy, this whole criminalization of drugs things really gets my goat. Not saying drugs are good, but one distinguishing factor of law is that immoral does not equal criminal. If I snort cocaine (assume I obtained it from Santa Claus, so no bad people in the distribution chain), what HARM is done to others? No HARM, no crime. Just stupidity. But if we outlawed stupid...

It is like the moralizers are saying "these substances are so bad and so immoral that we will only let criminals provide them". Because people DO use drugs, despite laws, and if there is a market then there is a business.

Oh, slop. I hijacked the thread. Apologies!

Ok, back on track. The government sometimes does bad things. Remember Iran-Contra?

Fortunately we have a democracy, so we have some hope of holding them accountable. It takes a responsible and educated public, glad to find so many such folk on this forum.
 

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I believe the large majority were purchased by straw buyers and then paid by the cartel. "Tens of thousands", I don't know about those figures or where they came from. I wouldn't think all of the cartels put together would be anywhere near that large.
 

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While it makes for a good straw man argument, the southward flow of guns into Mexico, is more myth than fact.

The guns used by the Mexican drug cartels are, for the most part fully automatic weapons. There just aren't enough full auto weapons in the U.S. to provide the type of arms used. The majority are coming in from countries like Cuba, Colombia, and Venezuela. The weapons are smuggled in through the courtesy of corrupt Mexican officials on the Gulf of Mexico/Caribbean coast.
 

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While it makes for a good straw man argument, the southward flow of guns into Mexico, is more myth than fact.

The guns used by the Mexican drug cartels are, for the most part fully automatic weapons. There just aren't enough full auto weapons in the U.S. to provide the type of arms used. The majority are coming in from countries like Cuba, Colombia, and Venezuela. The weapons are smuggled in through the courtesy of corrupt Mexican officials on the Gulf of Mexico/Caribbean coast.
+1. The cartels aren't getting their grenade launchers, anti-tank, anti-air, RPG's, heavy machine guns, hand grenades, landmines, etc. from Joe' Gun Shop in Phoenix.
 

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While it makes for a good straw man argument, the southward flow of guns into Mexico, is more myth than fact.
Pendennis, as a Customs and Border Protection Officer I have to disagree with the "more myth than fact" comment.

Granted that the fully auto weapons, grenade launchers, grenades, etc. are not coming from here - with the exception of Mexican Military Weapons, provided under US Foreign Military Sale and then sold or stolen by the cartels; (Los Zetas was created by renegade MX Military Personnel) there is a regular flow of guns south to Mexico - stolen or bought in the US. Although no where near the numbers claimed by DOJ, or from Gun Runner there really is a flow of weapons and ammo to Mexico.
 

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Pendennis, as a Customs and Border Protection Officer I have to disagree with the "more myth than fact" comment.

Granted that the fully auto weapons, grenade launchers, grenades, etc. are not coming from here - with the exception of Mexican Military Weapons, provided under US Foreign Military Sale and then sold or stolen by the cartels; (Los Zetas was created by renegade MX Military Personnel) there is a regular flow of guns south to Mexico - stolen or bought in the US. Although no where near the numbers claimed by DOJ, or from Gun Runner there really is a flow of weapons and ammo to Mexico.
What type and how many weapons have you seized?...Respectfully inquiring.
 

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What type and how many weapons have you seized?...Respectfully inquiring.
Personally, here on the Northern Border I have never seized a weapon. We do get one or two a month, usually people with records who are refused entry to Canada and haave an illegal firearm in their vehicle.

The biggest weapons problem on the Northern Border, while no where near the scope of the SW Border, is the flow of illegal guns into Canada. Either Canadian Gangs or their US affiliates buy and steal guns here in the US and try to smuggle them through Windsor or Sarnia to Toronto.

The last "weapons" related issue I was involved in was when a lawfully licensed CCW carrier walked into our secure facility while carrying his CCW. Posted, no weapons. For safety we "relieved" him of the pistol and validated both his and the firearm's legitimacy. We then put his gun and magazine in his center console of his car, and told him to have a good day - which was of course, the correct action.
 

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ka64
I'd happily trade them all of the millions of their people we have for just one good Colt Single Action!:rolleyes:
Frank
 

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Pendennis, as a Customs and Border Protection Officer I have to disagree with the "more myth than fact" comment.

Granted that the fully auto weapons, grenade launchers, grenades, etc. are not coming from here - with the exception of Mexican Military Weapons, provided under US Foreign Military Sale and then sold or stolen by the cartels; (Los Zetas was created by renegade MX Military Personnel) there is a regular flow of guns south to Mexico - stolen or bought in the US. Although no where near the numbers claimed by DOJ, or from Gun Runner there really is a flow of weapons and ammo to Mexico.
My comment was not to unnecessarily minimize the gun-running south, to Mexico. However, as is always done by the "left", legitimate businesses are tarred with the same brush as smugglers. The House of Representatives should have voted a bill of impeachment for Eric Holder, et al., six months ago.
 

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Guns that originated in the US and end up in Mexico should not be a problem for US law enforcement. It should be a problem for Mexican law enforcement just as illegal drugs should be delt with here by our fed. and local gov't. Asking a gov't like Mexico or Columbia to curtail a very lucrative export business isn't going to work because just about everyone in law enforcement down there is being payed off. If you had an annual income of 5K and someone offered you 1K to look the other way or a bullet in your head if you didn't which would you choose? If there is a demand for a product, drugs or guns, someone will find a way to supply that product. I used to live and hunt in AZ. on the Mexican border. Trying to secure that 2000 mile border is futile for both countries. People are going to cross and carry contriban. When drugs are made legal in this country and distributed by the gov't as they are in some other countries this problem will go away. Until then the war will continue in both countries. Jim
 
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