[Major Rider]

First timer here. I recently acquired a very old what appears to be a Walker-Colt 1847. On the butt frame I can barely make out a single 2 as on the barrel underside panel near the trigger guard. The bore rifling is very worn and the cylinder shows signs of scorching, typical of overloading and spillage. The cylinder has very deep etchings and W.L. Urmsby Sc. NY. 9” barrel and 15” overall. Lots of pitting but operates beautifully. It had some rusting overall but better after using some light museum wax. Lots of old black powder residue. The number 564 appears on the burned side of the cylinder. There is so much black scarring on the underside as to almost obliterate any other numbers. It does appear the top of the barrel was worn and shows no address or it could be a replacement. Weight about 4.5 lbs. The cylinder appears to have some white/ silver color. This appears to be a well used piece. I have dozens of detailed photos. I’m wondering if this could be a true Walker-Colt. Any thoughts.

 

[GRI]

Why does this keep happening? No, you do not have a $100,000 gun.

 

[smithnframe]

What is it then GRI?

 

[GRI]

What is it then GRI?

It is either real or an Italian copy. Take your pick.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

As someone here said just recently...out of 1100 Walker Colts made (both military and civilian)...there are only about 5000 left.

 

[stavok]

Welcome to the forum. It is an informative place but like antique gun collecting it can be brutal.

 

[seabobro46]

What is it then GRI?

hello, sir; i think we all could use a few more images before divining. i do like what i can see of the cylinder roll which matches tobias' book.. also, is that an upside down eight (8)?? that could indicate that the forgers are getting better.
regards, bro

 

[Wyatt Burp]

If 1100 Walkers were made, some blew up, some lost forever, and if there are currently only 37 known to exist at the moment (if what I read is right), I think it’s entirely possible for someone to eventually show up here with a real one.

 

[dandak]

Come on guys, not much of a welcome to a new member. If one has no interest in the topic, one can easily just ignore it without getting miffed at the poster. Back on topic to the OP: Welcome to the forum. You have an interesting gun, but the odds of it being an original Walker are pretty remote, frankly the odds of any newly found Walker coming to light are slim but not necessarily zero. Things I find non original on based on your photos are the caliber stamping as I do not believe genuine Walkers had that. Also the serial number of 564 is off. The Military ones were numbered A through E 1 to 200, and the 100 civilian Walkers were numbered 1000 through 1100 or so, thus the 564 fits nowhere in this sequence. My hunch is a really beat Italian clone, possibly has been in a fire. If you can get a screw off and determine if it is metric there would be your answer as to if it is Italian. There are no doubt other things that can be pointed out by those who really know these... I am not one of them as the study of Walkers is way beyond my knowledge.

 

[dandak]

Welcome to the forum. It is an informative place but like antique gun collecting it can be brutal.

But it shouldn't be on THIS forum. That is what set THIS forum apart from so many others that have come and gone. THIS forum was so different from the rest and I hope it remains so.

 

[Agarbers]

Here are some other threads on other examples:

Putting to rest the myth that one’s Colt Walker might be...

On various occasions, well meaning individuals post photographs of their Colt Walker revolver and the sentiment ranges from confidence that it’s the genuine article, to hope that it is, to doubts that it is, but, hey, maybe, you never know. Here’s why that one can prove definitively that one’s...

www.coltforum.com

Colt Walker Found.

Hello All, I found what appears to be a Walker Colt in a presentation case with all of the extras in it. At face value it seems to be the real thing and it is rather well used and worn. The presentation case has a brass plate with a name engraved on it but it is well polished and almost...

www.coltforum.com

 

[seabobro46]

If 1100 Walkers were made, some blew up, some lost forever, and if there are currently only 37 known to exist at the moment (if what I read is right), I think it’s entirely possible for someone to eventually show up here with a real one.

wyatt, i have heard 37 or 39 with ironclad credentials, but that provenance could also have been faked 100 years ago when the fakers began to seriously enter the market. anyone today purchasing an 1847 colt had better know his business, especially since larry the felon wilson was found out.

regards, bro

 

[po18guy]

Welcome!

It would be a good start to closely examine photos of the various known original Walker model Colts. Compare the appearance of the iron and brass, the engraving and especially, the shape of the grip, trigger guard and around the loading lever. Over time, you will see a difference between 'aged aging' and 'accelerated aging' - the accelerated aging practiced both by those who desire an authentic appearance, as well as total frauds and thieves. Most originals have little of the cylinder scene left due to holster abrasion and the partina or pitting tends to be uniform and over much if not all of the surface. When you see an example with deep pits here and sharp edges or lettering there, it raises a red flag.

I have such a revolver, but it was made in the 1970s by Saint Mark Armory (Armi San Marco) in northern Italy. I bought it new as a reproduction and can clearly see that it it not made with the craftsmanship of the originals. Better, modern materials than the originals, but so-so work in fitting and polishing. The original Colts were special order, were a huge feather in Sam Colt's cap and so their fit and finish were all that could be expected from a (then) very expensive revolver.

As well, compare any numbers on your example with those of known originals. Check the size of the numbers and letters, and especially the font used. Any duplicates are, therefore, just that - duplications. Certified originals (nearly all have extensive documentation) are selling for over one million dollars now, so the motivation to produce and sell a $10,000 fake is very high. We hope that yours is genuine, but at this late date, it is unfortunately not likely.

 

[Ohiocalvinist]

Hey Major...welcome to the forum. I'm here to learn as well. God Bless.

 

[Major Rider]

Hey Major...welcome to the forum. I'm here to learn as well. God Bless.

Thanks much. Nice to hear something positive.

 

[Major Rider]

Come on guys, not much of a welcome to a new member. If one has no interest in the topic, one can easily just ignore it without getting miffed at the poster. Back on topic to the OP: Welcome to the forum. You have an interesting gun, but the odds of it being an original Walker are pretty remote, frankly the odds of any newly found Walker coming to light are slim but not necessarily zero. Things I find non original on based on your photos are the caliber stamping as I do not believe genuine Walkers had that. Also the serial number of 564 is off. The Military ones were numbered A through E 1 to 200, and the 100 civilian Walkers were numbered 1000 through 1100 or so, thus the 564 fits nowhere in this sequence. My hunch is a really beat Italian clone, possibly has been in a fire. If you can get a screw off and determine if it is metric there would be your answer as to if it is Italian. There are no doubt other things that can be pointed out by those who really know these... I am not one of them as the study of Walkers is way beyond my knowledge.

Thanks for the input my friend.

 

[GRI]

1. No one on this Forum collects Walkers.
2. Asking the provenance helps determine authenticity.
3. When and if a real one does show up, by the time it hits the forum it will have been examined by others.
4. Certainly they can contact an auction house to sell their gun.
5. A selling point for them is, “I went to the Colt Forum and someone thinks it could be real.”
6. There are easily 100,000 reproductions, but only 1,100 originals.
7. After they come here, WE NEVER HEAR FROM THEM AGAIN, let alone contribute.
8. In my experience, telling some one they have a fake, they usually refuse to believe it. (This is especially true so they can pass it on).
9. Yes, a Rembrandt can show up at a yard sale.

 

[Walter Rego]

The rifling in the barrel is interesting, it almost looks like it was straight cut and does not have a twist or if it does it was really, really slow.
Is that a clue or were the Italian reproductions also cut with that type of rifling ?

 

[MarkInTx]

First...Welcome to the Forum from (northern) South Texas!

Second...I am a far cry from being an expert but honestly, the odds of that gun being a real original Walker are against you. I really do hope it is real but proving it is going to be a long, difficult and probably expensive journey.

 

[seabobro46]

First...Welcome to the Forum from (northern) South Texas!
View attachment 792838

Second...I am a far cry from being an expert but honestly, the odds of that gun being a real original Walker are against you. I really do hope it is real but proving it is going to be a long, difficult and probably expensive journey.

hello; to give the o p some assistance, a civil enngineering company or an architect (most now have non-destructive mass spectrometers), even drive up to oak island - the treasure hunters have a pretty good one and lots of experience; in a few minutes any of the above can produce a chemical analysis of the steel and iron. that will tell you if period or modern components so can decide next step if any.
regards, bro