[Hondo44]

Bob,

I love 'em, and I like your Uberti, especially in the short barrel. Don't you like that wide trigger? I picked up a few of those triggers and installed in my 3rd gens. A nice improvement. But as was said, and I agree they are just too rare and valuable, all in the hands of big collectors who won't shoot them and just squirreled away as safe queens.

Often figured on picking up the USFA version but never came across one before production ceased.

Did find an original #162895 in 38 Colt fully engraved and lettered up for auction but it started at $20K. Have some great pics to show you but my links don't work on this forum. Haven't taken time to work it out yet. But I can send via e-mail for you to see or if you want to post them here, feel free.

Jim Carter
[email protected]

 

[Hondo44]

Dragoon,

The hammer travel on any properly timed SA is stopped when all the parts snug up and can't move any farther and should all happen at once:

the hand moves cyl until the cyl bolt pops into the cyl notch, and the trigger sear locks into the hammer full cock notch. The 2nd tooth on the hand remains snug (not binding, just snug) against the ratchet teeth, the bolt is snug against the right side of the cyl notch, and the hammer travel stops. Everything stops moving at the same time and there's no further movement of any of the parts.

If the hand is not snug against the ratchet tooth, the cyl will not be held snug against the cyl bolt, the cyl will have play and it can rotate back slightly against the bolt. You won't have proper chamber to barrel alignment. You don't want that!

"The pin boss where the hand attaches to the hammer" DOES NOT "bottom out on the web between the hand passage and the hammer". The pin boss is always in the hand channel. To prove this, remove the cyl and cock the hammer. The hand will keep moving much farther up into the channel until the hammer bottoms in the hammer slot of the grip frame back strap.

The hammer stop screw you're referring to is a fast draw modification to prevent battering all the parts which is absolutely not needed in a standard SA that's properly timed and not used for fast draw.

 

[Hondo44]

Dragoon,

Thanks for your continued and very friendly discussion of this interesting Colt action operation. I don't think we have to agree to disagree yet. I'm always interested in the perceptions of others and never mind being proved wrong because then I learn something new. Besides we have hard evidence and should be able to come to a shared understanding of that evidence.

First of all, I suggest that you remove cyl and pull off the grip frame on your Colt and observe that the actual operation of gun in hand doesn't match your interpretation of what you read in the 1st gen manual. I'm aware of the web between hand channel and hammer slot that you are referring to. It sounds like the manual is describing the original design, I don't know till I see it. But in normal assembly and tuning, the trigger length is not going to be determined by the "web/hand/hammer stop". It has to be quite a bit shorter to work.

Also my USFA clone has the same "web/hand/hammer stop" and works exactly like my Colts which is: with grip frame removed and cyl out, the hand will continue moving up well past the cyl/hand contact position-at-lockup and the hammer well past the full cock position, long before it is stopped by the web. In fact, that's the ONLY WAY the web "stop" can be contacted by the hand pin boss: with cyl and grip frame removed!

Please post a scan of what you are reading, maybe we can figure it out together.

Secondly, you are correct, the hand position relative to the cylinder when hammer is at rest is entirely different than when hammer is fully cocked. That's why there is cyl play when hammer is down. But with hammer cocked, and proper length hand, the cyl notch is held tight against the bolt and should have no play. No Colt notches fit the cyl bolt that snugly and do not for a reason.

So yes, when the hammer falls, the hand retracts but the bolt spring tension holds the cyl in position for continued barrel alignment during the mili-seconds of hammer drop. That's why overly light bolt springs cause problems in cyl alignment and can also cause the bolt to "jump" out of the notch under rapid hammer cocking.


Please observe your Colt and see if it agrees with you and then let's discuss some more.

Good discussion,
Jim