Colt Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,018 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is something I have pondered for awhile. The SAA seems to be unique in the gun world in that it is commonly seen with the hammer tie-wrapped down so that the action cannot be worked. It is such a common practice that some people actually think that Colt ships the guns in that manner.

What was the origin of this practice? My pet theory is that the poorly timed 3rd Gen guns would often ring their cylinders so people started tying the action down to avoid the risk. The language in the SAA manual about loss of value probably influences the decision also.

Or is it because of tyros who don't understand the SAA action and ring the cylinder while handling? I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the board.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
I don't know when the practice started. I always pass up guns that are so tied up at gun shows. I figure if its not worth a casual examination, it probably won't be a good shooter. I don't buy safe queens.

Bob Wright
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,340 Posts
I have purchased guns which came with the ties on them but not sure who put them on. Most people are not familiar on how the action works on a SAA. They are not aware that it actually has 4 clicks and the old timers say it is to spell "C-O-L-T". I have seen the rings because people intend to cock the hammer just slightly and turn the cylinder by hand which causes the ring. If you cock it like it needs be done there won't be a ring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
181 Posts
They are tied down as required by the law when on display at guns shows and other public display. At least that is the law here in Florida at gun shows. Some people that attend the shows just leave them tired down until the next show. So between shows you might see on one GB, etc. Using the tie wraps is the easiest way for revolvers. There are other ways to disable the gun but the wraps are popular. If you would like to examine the gun just ask and the owner and he/she will remove the tie wrap for your inspection.

Bill
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
Or is it because of tyros who don't understand the SAA action and ring the cylinder while handling? I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the board. BINGO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,827 Posts
This has been discussed on previous threads. It is done to single action armys,pythons,357's OMM's -you name it .
Some sellers do this and act like the gun came that way from the factory i.e. they want to give the impression that it is brand new. Of course Colt never shipped them that way to my knowledge.
I have seen this done to pythons and many other Colts. They often advertise as never been turned or some BS like that. I don't waste my time with those.
Noone that knows anything about guns would fall for that crap, but apparently there are enough that do, that make it worthwhile for the sellers.
There is one gun show here in this area that actually requires even the vendors'guns being tied up with those plastic ties,but most do not. Of course anyone that wants to look at one for sale would ask the seller to take the stupid thing off so he could check it out. Then the seller has to cut it and if the person looking at it doesn't want it, then the seller has to put another tie on it right away until the next potential buyer wants to look at it.
If I go to a show that requires this plastic tie foolishness for all the vendors,then at least I know why the sellers do it. If I bring one to sell it is really annoying because anyone who is really serious about buying my gun,of course wants the thing off, so they can check timing etc. Then I have to find someone who will provide another tie after He checks it out.
When I go to a show and the vendors are not required to put the ties on ,but then I see some seller with them on the gun, I just walk on by unless it is one great buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
Around this neck of the woods, unscrupulous dealers put Tie wraps on hammers to boost the price as being unfired (LOL). Like a new SAA vanilla Colt is a collectors item!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,961 Posts
I'm not a gun dealer, but I can speak my theory on why the SAA's are sometimes tie wrapped I believe. It's not done to necessarily mean the gun is unfired always... But more likely that it does not yet have a turn line on the cylinder and it could prevent it from getting one while on display. If the SAA is mishandled by lowering the hammer from half cock instead of bringing it to full cock the lowered, it will cause the bolt to drag on the cylinder and cause a turn line. Also, if there is timing issues, being cocked over and over will cause a turn line. So the tie wrapped hammer is saying..don't cock me unless you plan on buying me. Also, I believe all single action Rugers get a turn line when cocked enough times anyway from normal operation, so the seller doesn't want it to be looking used even though its not used. ... My two cents.. Before taxes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,488 Posts
Generally speaking in the gun shows in my area require that all guns be tied so that they can't be fired. Had a guy at a show in Hot Springs a couple of weekends ago that didn't tie a 45 automatic pistol on his table and either someone slipped a round in it or he brought it from home with a round in the chamber and some lookie-loo cocked and fired it through his own hand and the bullet bounced off the floor and hit a guy in the chest but had spent so much energy that it didn't break the skin but just put a big knot on the guy. Mr. "I just shot my own hand" dropped the gun and made a beeline for the backdoor with his wife in tow trying to get to the ER.

You guys hit the nail on the head about single actions. The majority of lookie-loos at the gun shows don't cock a single action completely and then bring the hammer back to full rest and most of them will not pull the hammer all the way back to the loading notch but rather just hold the hammer back enough for the cylinder bolt to clear the notch and rotate the cylinder with the bolt dragging a nice line into the finish on the cylinder. I tie my own guns before leaving home because the majority of the "security" people checking and tieing single actions at the shows don't have a clue either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
Gun Shows it is required, so alot of the guns are left with the ties on then because they are taken from show to show. Another reason is the people that no not what they are doing and will pick your gun up and either spin the cylinder or go to a half cock position then to the closed position . This will leave some marks on the cylinder . The guns can get a little out of time when not cocked correctly leaving deep grooves or lines. Nothing worse than someone picking up your nice colt and spinning the cylinder at high speed. I have two early second gen guns in the box recently a guy asked to see one. First thing he did was spin the cylinder as fast as he could leaving a turn line. Mine now will get the ugly tie wrap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,770 Posts
if i'm interested in buying a SAA that has the hammer tied down I always ask the seller to remove the tie down before I buy. I will only ask if i'm serious about buying. I shoot all my guns and I want to try the action before I buy. also I have seen where a tie down marked the frame with a scratch. I also like to look thru the firing pin hole in the frame as part of my bore inspection even on new guns. it's also good to check that the chamber is lined up correctly with the bore. sellers are afraid that some dummy will work the action incorrectly and mark up the cylinder. I have seen this in gun shops and gun shows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,809 Posts
I have seen people bring a Colt SAA to half cock then lower the hammer from half cock.
When the cylinder is then turned to lock it up it will almost gurantee a turn line.
If I show someone a Colt & am not SURE they know how to properly handle one I explain how to cock & lower the hammer.
I have seen properly handled Colt SAAs that have had hundreds of rounds through them with NO turn line.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
769 Posts
Not to ask a stupid question but is there a way to load it without causing a turn line?
Jim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,961 Posts
Not to ask a stupid question but is there a way to load it without causing a turn line?Jim
It depends on the gun, but assuming that you are referring to a Colt SAA, the second click heard when cocking the hammer back is the loading position. You cock the gun to the loading position, open the loading gate, and load the rounds. When you turn the cylinder to load each round in each chamber, the bolt is away from the cylinder, so it does not contact the cylinder when you rotate the cylinder, and therefore does not make a turn line. Once loaded, you bring the hammer all the way back to full cock, then pull the trigger and slowly lower the hammer back down. This sequence always bringing the hammer to full cock before lowering is what prevents the turn line. It is possible to lower the hammer from the half cock or loading position, and that action causes the bolt to rise up to the cylinder out of proper sequence in between the cylinder notches and drag along the surface of the cylinder and scratches a line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
This is something I have pondered for awhile. The SAA seems to be unique in the gun world in that it is commonly seen with the hammer tie-wrapped down so that the action cannot be worked. It is such a common practice that some people actually think that Colt ships the guns in that manner.

What was the origin of this practice? My pet theory is that the poorly timed 3rd Gen guns would often ring their cylinders so people started tying the action down to avoid the risk. The language in the SAA manual about loss of value probably influences the decision also.

Or is it because of tyros who don't understand the SAA action and ring the cylinder while handling? I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the board.
At Gunshows or maybe even at some Gun Stores, Revolvers ( and other Guns ) are so 'Tied' to prevent unauthorized persons from serendipitously picking them up and dry firing them...or, from serendipitously picking them up, thumbing in a Cartridge, and shooting themselves or someone else.

The 'Tie' is always graciously-enough removed, on request, for any one who presents themselves as being both interested in 'seriously' and responsibly examining the Arm and responsible enough not to do something stupid.

Most Gunshows require the 'Ties' to be used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
I was browsing in one of the famed 'Antique Arms Shows' here in Las Vegas some years ago, and, I had paused to admire some very high condition, early Colt SAAs a Seller had on his Table.

Seller also had some very old, original Boxes of Cartridges, and, some loose Cartridges on a little Tray, which dated to the 1870s or 1880s.


The guy next to me, to my left, blithely picks up one of the .45 SAAs, and, at the same time, picks up a .45 Colt Cartridge, and instasndly thumbs the Cartridge in, closes the Loading Gate, maybe spun the Cyliner or not, I don't remember, but, Cocks it, and...


I instantly put my right Hand and Fingers over the Top Strap and Cylinder with my Thumb between Hammer and Frame, to prevent him firing it, ( I think I said "Don't do that." ) and, the Seller was at that moment 'White as a Ghost".

Seller then reached over and took the Revolver from the guy, and, un-Loaded the round. Guy walked away...I do not remember if 'Security' was called, but, they might have been...I mosey'd on anyway...sort of musing on what just happened.

One does well to be alert, at any Gun Show!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
769 Posts
It depends on the gun, but assuming that you are referring to a Colt SAA, the second click heard when cocking the hammer back is the loading position. You cock the gun to the loading position, open the loading gate, and load the rounds. When you turn the cylinder to load each round in each chamber, the bolt is away from the cylinder, so it does not contact the cylinder when you rotate the cylinder, and therefore does not make a turn line. Once loaded, you bring the hammer all the way back to full cock, then pull the trigger and slowly lower the hammer back down. This sequence always bringing the hammer to full cock before lowering is what prevents the turn line. It is possible to lower the hammer from the half cock or loading position, and that action causes the bolt to rise up to the cylinder out of proper sequence in between the cylinder notches and drag along the surface of the cylinder and scratches a line.
Thanks I have a Gen 3 and did not know that. I just bought it recently and have not shot it yet so I appreciate the information.
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
So the tie wrapped hammer is saying..don't cock me unless you plan on buying me.
That pretty well explains it, particularly with new guns or fragile antiques. Stops every passer-by and tyre-kicker from cycling it then scurrying away if they stuff something up. Serious buyers can have ties removed. I tie my good antiques at shows - if that offends anyone so be it.
Also it is a police requirement here in most states for guns accessible to the public.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,961 Posts
Thanks I have a Gen 3 and did not know that. I just bought it recently and have not shot it yet so I appreciate the information.Jim
Yep. It's a fact. Matter fact, I've called Colt customer service with a serial number question about a SAA and the person reminded me to always bring hammer to full cock before lowering hammer. That may be Colt policy to inform SAA owners... Not sure, since it doesn't seem to be widely known. I did not know until I bought my first Colt.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top