[manderson]

Everyone's been talking about the rise in prices lately. Colt's ridiculous pricing has much to do with the recent rumors of their future. However, I've noticed the rise in prices on S&W also. Model 29's that were $650.00 a year ago are now between 800 and 900, and the same with the other models. It seems like a stiff jump to me in a very short period of time overall.

Haven't heard anything else on the commercial side of a Colt company sale since the rumors about the gov't side and a General Dynamics buy-out a few weeks ago. Furthermore, there isn't anything on the General Dynamics Press Releases web site to substantiate the earlier rumor.

Anybody think this is maybe short term and there might be a price drop or leveling off in the market to come?

Looking for opinions. I've been buying revolvers for about 2-1/2 years and have never seen prices "shoot up" like this.

 

[Gunsmoke]

It's all to do about how markets work.
Demand and availability combined with issues inside the market.

Demand remains as is, availability drops (ex. culling of the Colt Python by Colt), prices rise.
Here the investor steps in, not interested in the item itself, but interested in making profit. Demand rises in a market where availability has remained as is, but quickly will dry out when demand increases due to this new group in the market: prices go up. Prices will only fall, when the buyers stop buying either because of lack of interest or because of lack of cash.

So for prices to fall, it will probably take a stiff resecion or a dramatic change in U.S. gunlaws to drop interest. Otherwise I don't see prices to drop in the near or even far future.

 

[bubba]

My feeling is that it's not so much tied into whats happening with Colt or S&W but more with the state of the economy in general. 5 Years ago lots of people put their cash in the stock market and lost their butts when it crashed. That money then went into the housing market as those same people saw a way to make quick money there. Now that market is starting to crash from an investment perpective and the investors there are pulling their money out. Many of them are looking for investments that they can touch and feel and that are rare and scarce enough that they think they can make a few bucks over time. So my guess is that it's these guys that are driving the "collectable" gun market up. When this type of buying behavior happens the demand goes through the roof and the prices go with it. Some of this is fueled by non knowledgeable buyers who will buy just about anything at a premium (kinda like the Beanie Baby thing of a few years ago). As far as the prices coming back down, that will happen when these buyers try to sell the guns they are buying today. Most of them will want to turn a quick profit so probably in the next year or two these guns will turn up on AA or Gunbroker at sky high prices. When they don't sell, and these guys realize demand is not there, prices will come back down. Bottom line is that I see some of this as a "bubble" that will burst when the buyers don't materialize at the high prices. As long as your buying good quality guns that are true collector pieces I would think you'd be alright but I think now is a time to be careful what you buy... My 2 cents...

 

[Model520Fan]

Colts are a little expensive for the obvious reasons, but used or near-new S&W's can still be purchased for MUCH less than a new gun that is not nearly as good. This will probably not go on forever.

Not sure about Colts, but S&W prices should be taken from private internet sales or local gun stores, not auctions, I think. I believe that the auction prices reflect some sort of anomaly, and don't always represent prevalent prices in other forms of trade.

 

[DHENRY]

That 'supply-and-demand' thing says it all. The 'hard assets' investment thing also applies today.
Just as prices on ALL good revolvers are increasing, the speculators will force them higher.
Comes the big 'slowdown', we'll be able to add to our collections at more reasonable (not cheap) prices.
Prices curve up and then down and then up again, but each time, the 'floor' gets higher.
That's GOOD if you're already an owner, but it makes it tough for someone who wants to get into the hobby now.
Bottom line? KEEP your good pieces...Long-term, they'll be good investments, and FUN!
Don
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bowhunter]

I'm having a blast with it. There are still deals out there, just ask Robba lol. I would have to say, that with prices going up, it is hard for me to walk away from a piece even if the price is a little off from where I want it. Guys that will let 50 bucks get in the way of a purchase crack me up. Me I just work a little harder the next day to make up the difference.

 

[Addicted]

Personally, when the stock market tanked history shows that it takes a long time for it to recover (sometimes decades). Knowing that, I cashed in on all my stocks. History shows that money will seek art. Art is a broad market and desire drives the price. I choose to place my money on firearms only because that's my taste. Other art is going up in value just as fast as firearms if not faster. Has anyone been watching the Barrett-Jackson auto auctions? Not all firearms are going up in value. The undersired will continue to sit flat in their pricing.

At some point this inflating gun market will pause and that is a healthy thing. Maybe at that time my wifes Penguin collection will take off. Mumford is now valued at $125 because it appears on the sitcom Joey. Sad but true.

There are bargins out there. I wouldn't be the gent that paid over 8 G's for a pair of Boa's.

 

[weagle99]

My opinion is that true 'steel and walnut' guns will continue to go up in price as more polymer and 'unobtanium' made guns are introduced. High polish blued steel and walnut revolvers are much more valuable and appealing to me than a bead blasted / plastic autos and I suspect there are plenty of other folks who think the same way. Hence the uptick in prices for good specimens.

There is also a substantial group of people who want nothing to do with a gun lock (I am in that group) and have to increasingly look to the older guns to meet that criteria.

 

[chevis]

I aggree with Addicted on collectibles of all sorts are takeing off.It just depends on how you do your homework though.I learned a long time ago that something meant to be a collectible it never is,,,or in our lifetime anyway.One fine example is Beanie Babies.The very first one was torn up and played with by kids.Then the second was sort the same way.Those first few are extremly expensive now.The newer ones can be bought for a few bucks and they'll always be a few dollars worth.The guns though are somewhat different.Pythons especially.The market will come to a hault fairly soon,as when the people get their heads outa panic mode.What's really a good investment on guns are the real old ones in pristine condition.I'll take a mint 1911 over 3 or 4 mint Pythons,,,notice I didn't say 1911A1.When ol chevis hits the lottery I plan on trying to find a Winchester 1873,1 in 100,,or something of that caliber of gun.Now we're talking art that I understand.

 

[robba]

If you are not filthy rich, you have to look diligently, and often on the net. Good deals are out there, we collect Colts, and Rugers, and not Smiths much, because they made a gazillion of a lot of the S&W models. We have a couple of 29's, and 5 screws, and thats it for them.

Some guns fall through the cracks in the auction floors, and sometimes it amazes me what drops in our laps for a very reasonable price.

All of you fairly serious guys have the same experiences.

We still find goodies in local gun & pawn shops.

"Luck is where good guns find you"!]

Prices, yes they are going up some, but the only gun prices that are wacky, are guns of the Boa ilk. Every time a Colt goes up in price, so do ours. I guess we can live with that. If the economy goes upside down, collector guns will suffer less in my opinion than most things, and will recover more quickly.

Bob

 

[unspellable]

So far you guys have been talking mainly about collectables.

But consider the newly manufactured market, say a garden variety S&W revolver. I'd like to know how much of the price is due to the law suits the anti-gunners brought against the industry. It was their intention to drive prices up. Not only is there a lot of money expended by the manufacturer to defend against the law suits, but liability insurance premiums will have been driven up by this as well.

 

[robba]

From my point of veiw, newly mfg. guns are somewhat of a joke.

Old Ruger single action Blackhawks are something we collect. The new 50th. anniversary 357 Blackhawk flattop which was touted to be kind of a limited edition, is now over 16,000 in production. Some exclusivity! Their case hardening is now a coating that will come off if you polish it to much.

Colt revolvers production seems to be over.

Smith & Wesson's new revolvers have a neat little lock, that sometimes I understand does not unlock. So this bad-ass is after you, and you have to stop, and say, "Hey, give me a time out, while I get my gun lock to work", and of course he says, "Oh, pardon me sir, of course I'll wait for you". Yeah!

Which is why we collect old Colts, mainly adjustable sight revolvers like, Officers Models, Diamondbacks, etc. because they were made with loving care by master gun makers who cherished their craft. These folks are either retired, or with the Lord.

So my opinion, give me the old guns. There are a lot of them out there yet, and in some cases, they are more reasonable in price than the new ones. They are also appreciating in value as we speak.

Bob

 

[Addicted]

[ QUOTE ]
From my point of veiw, newly mfg. guns are somewhat of a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

From my point of view, newly mfg. guns ARE a joke.

I purchased a couple of new guns (not Colts) recently and what a disappointment. The quality pales to that of decades ago. Never again will I buy a new gun.

 

[manderson]

[ QUOTE ]
Colts...because they were made with loving care by master gun makers who cherished their craft

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, lots of great comments from everyone.

I'm going to go off in another direction here with robba's statement:

I couldn't agree more. New S&W, Ruger and even new Colts don't do a thing for me. (I won't even mention some of the other brands that don't merit conversation.) I am trying to collect older Colts because what you say is definitely true.

However, I have to believe the love of gunsmithing is still alive and well! Look at top new brands. Freedom Arms makes one of the finest single action revolvers ever produced, probably a few notches ahead of the Colt SAA. Ed Brown is one of the finest 1911's ever made. Les Baer to name another; not to mention long guns like Dakota Arms, Cooper and Blaser, etc. Firearms that aren't considered collectible now, but I believe could be very valuable in the future.

These are all smaller companies that have evolved with the times, whereas, the bigger companies like Colt and S&W went after the cost reduction, high volume sales and lesser quality product.

Just to emphasize my point; "There are still master gun makers out there".

I believe the really good gunsmiths don't want anything to do with these corporate mogul companies.

It's sad that Colt didn't have some good management and scale down to continue the production of a great product. I wouldn't mind being put on a waiting list for something that had the quality of old.

 

[chevis]

I don't think I would own a NEW Smith unless it was dirt cheap where I could dump it for a buck.I was tempted to buy a new Colt 1911 though awhile back though.The new Colt 1911's are still nice guns.There's a few new guns I would like to try.A Uberti 1873 SRC copy is one.They make a SAA for Beretta that looks sweet too.I think of all the SAA's around $500,that would be the one for me.Over that a USFA makes one helluva nice SAA.I think even Colt is jealous of those.USFA has a new 1911 out too for the die-hard fans.It should be out about right now at the cheap price of $1,800.Everything correct down to the U.S.Government markings.It only lacks the Colt horse...yeah right.I think before I'd go that far I'd be into a Wilson or Baer is what most of you are thinking,,includeing me.

But as far as ANY of these newer guns being worth anything over the price you paid for them in a few years is pretty slim.You just buy them,shoot them,and take your lumps when you sell them.

 

[robba]

I agree there are good gunsmiths around. However most folks can't afford a Freedom Arms revolver, or ones of that ilk.

What I was trying to get over was, that the production gun houses, such as Colt, Smith, and now even Ruger that existed in the past, are for the most part gone, or their offerings are so watered down as to be useless to my tastes.

These were the guns, that were affordable by the average people that enjoyed shooting, and hunting.

I am everlastingly greatful that a lot of what they made in the past is available used, having been cared for by loving owners for generations.

Love them old guns!

 

[weagle99]

Agree with robba - Give me old guns over new anytime.

As much as I like the Colt SAA, the modern version can hit or miss on quality. I picked up a recent vintage Colt and while the lines are better than than the USFA, it simply cannot compete on detail fit / finish. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't get rid of a Colt for anything but from a purely analytical standpoint the USFA is a better built gun.

Too bad USFA's customer service stinks.

 

[22-rimfire]

Great comments. One result of the increase in pricing on Colts is that the guns which are in the 90% range will start to become more desired and hence more valuable. I'm sure this is the case already, especially for new collectors. Collecting for the most part was a 95%+ condition thing. That is changing.

I sometimes wonder where all the cash is coming from. The market seems crazy.