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AR-15: New vs. Vintage. Thoughts on the rifles and the market - here in 2023.

9.8K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  TheShakyHandKid  
#1 ·
Okay, bear with me. You fine folks have always been knowledgeable, informative, and helpful. We have one itch left to scratch (my wife rolled her eyes when I said that): A Colt AR-15. We are looking to round out out family arsenal of sporting fun and an AR-15 is the ticket. We are target shooters and love the great outdoors (as well as having a great range/shop nearby). This rifle will be purchased to fire, not gaze at. We aren't going to blaze a million rounds through anything, but regular use is forecast for all of our collection.

So, Option 1 - the new:


And I have read the thread here, as well as watched YouTube videos and read comments from AR builders who mock everything about this reissue and the suckers who pony up $2.5k. Some insights here seem to go deeper than "it looks like junk made in China", which does give me some thoughts that "new might be a good way to go".


Option 2 - the old:

Looking around on the various sites like gunbroker, etc. and seeing the vintage Colt AR-15 SP-1 all over the map based on year, quality, etc. It seems like $2.5k-10k (a 1964 three digit serial#) is the current price point, with rifles being offered as nice/clean ones being $3-4+k.

Deciphering what is original and what is "monkeyed with" and/or has condition issues (overt or hidden), well, it gets confusing for a newbie.

The dilemma:

Just kind of wondering, standing here at the fork in the road of vintage vs. new, what you fine folks might suggest based on your knowledge and experience. Here, now, in 2023. The more I look the more I feel like a dog chasing my own tail. Outside intervention needed!

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
You won't go wrong either way really. Do you really want the retro look? If so, cool but if you're looking for a quality rifle to shoot and don't need it to either be or look vintage, you'd be better served by the 20" A4.

Modern production, although somewhat hard to find here and there it seems. 20" barrel, since you said you are both into target shooting, you might as well eek out every last bit as opposed to the 16" guns. Detachable carry handle to mount optics on it. The only thing I'd change is the trigger - swap in a Geissele or LaRue trigger pack and you're done. You should be able to find one for $1500 or a good bit less.

Admittedly, the 16" guns are much handier and you won't really notice any difference in accuracy until you're stretching it way way out there.

If I were going to spend north of 2-3k for an AR, I'd drop over to Noveske or Wilson and scoop up something much more refined. If a Colt is over $2k, it better be a collectors model needed to fill in a spot in a collection like a 6940 or 6940P, or one of the older SP1's and such to comply with restricted ownership in one of the State's that isn't free.
 
#5 ·
You won't go wrong either way really. Do you really want the retro look? If so, cool but if you're looking for a quality rifle to shoot and don't need it to either be or look vintage, you'd be better served by the 20" A4.

Modern production, although somewhat hard to find here and there it seems. 20" barrel, since you said you are both into target shooting, you might as well eek out every last bit as opposed to the 16" guns. Detachable carry handle to mount optics on it. The only thing I'd change is the trigger - swap in a Geissele or LaRue trigger pack and you're done. You should be able to find one for $1500 or a good bit less.

Admittedly, the 16" guns are much handier and you won't really notice any difference in accuracy until you're stretching it way way out there.

If I were going to spend north of 2-3k for an AR, I'd drop over to Noveske or Wilson and scoop up something much more refined. If a Colt is over $2k, it better be a collectors model needed to fill in a spot in a collection like a 6940 or 6940P, or one of the older SP1's and such to comply with restricted ownership in one of the State's that isn't free.
Thank you for the thoughts. Valid "additional fork in the road" to review. I don't see this on Colt's website as a currently available rifle. But there are quite a few available new in box from gun shops all over the country. Have they been discontinued by Colt? Certainly some positive feedback from folks on Youtube and other reviews in magazines in 2013/4 regarding this rifle. Folks really like the full size and we're used to big heavy rifles - a favorite being our M1 Garand.
 
#4 ·
I had an SP1 bought new in 1983. Loved it. Unfortunately had to sell in the 1990s. I have a roughly 2012 M4 Colt Carbine and love it. Either is great. Depends really on what style rifle you want.

I did eventually build an M-16 Clone using an all Colt upper, so the Vietnam era AR itch is again scratched for me. But if I had to let all but one of my AR's go, the one I'd keep is my Colt 6920 M4 Carbine.
 
#7 ·
As you have seen, "vintage" Colt AR-15s sell for a significant premium these days. Not sure why but prices have gotten really crazy on them over the last couple of years.

You state you're shooters, not collectors so I see no reason to spend a premium on an older rifle that is functionally no better than a new one. IMO, the older ones aren't even as nice because of their use of non standard pins (FCG pins and front takedown pins depending on the age of the rifle) and some and some even have weird blocks in the lower that requires a special bolt carrier instead of a standard M16 carrier.

New or recent production is the way to go for a shooter IMO. As for which one, I highly recommend the CR6960 (PSA for $1,132.22) because it comes with a mid length gas system (that is properly gassed) and a quality FF handguard from the factory. These are both major improvements over the standard CR6920 M4 type carbine and well worth the extra money IMO. Put a better trigger in it and an optic of your liking and you will have a really nice shooter.

Do not confuse the CR6960 model for the LE6920-EPR (Enhanced Patrol Rifle) or the LE6920-R (Colt Trooper Patrol Carbine). They all kind of look alike because they use the same forend but the 2 "Patrol" models have the standard carbine gas system barrel. Nothing wrong with that per say but the midlength gas barrel that comes on the 6960 is better. Better as in less recoil/softer shooting and less stress on the action.
 
#11 ·
ShakyHandKid -
Colt hasn't really stopped making them, as it's more they only make certain guns in batches every so often and I'd suspect that A4 20" guns are/were made about 1 to every 20 6920s made, so the supply isn't as broad. They'll make them again (I hope) but as you found, they are still out there from the last run, just not quite as much as others.

Honestly, as I transition slowly away from using AR's at work for a lengthy career, I gravitate more towards my old 20" gun a bit more. If I were to have to keep only one, tragic as it may be, my early 90's 20" AR would be one, if not the last, to go. I can still shoot it better and get better accuracy with it and iron sights, than many of my short barrel red dot equipped guns.
 
#13 ·
I still prefer the 6960, but I can't argue with that recommendation either. The 20" rifle gas AR's are the smoothest shooting and arguable the most reliable AR's out there. Colt still makes them, either model # CR6700A4 or # AR15A4. I would look for the later as it should be marked "AR-15A4" and the 6700's are marked "Carbine" which makes no sense. Obviously doesn't matter functionally but really irks my OCD lol
 
#15 ·
#16 ·
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This is my A4 rifle but I didn't buy it complete, this is an AR-15A4 complete factory upper half conversion kit (originally with Magpul MOE rifle handguard and no rear sight) that I bought in 2021 mounted on an older post ban Colt Match Target HBAR lower half.

It shows my Nikon 3-9X40 hunting scope mounted on a Larue Tactical LT-104 M4/ SPR quick detachable lever mount.

This is a combination of old lower half and new upper half.

The story of my lower half was the first AR rifle lower half I assembled myself (DIY) using my own tools way back in 2005.

I found a stripped lower receiver like new Colt at one of my nearby gun stores.

Then I ordered genuine Colt lower receiver parts and a take off M-16A2 buttstock group from another machine gun dealer, the assembly was smooth without any problems.

I had been a very long time Colt AR SP1 rifle owner since my first new SP1 rifle in 1971.



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This picture shown my new AR-15A4 factory conversion upper half, I changed the handguards from the Magpul MOE handguard that came from the factory to a Colt A2/ A4 handguard and used one of my older Colt 6920 M4 carbine detachable carry handle.

I also have a Colt CR6960 carbine with midlength gas system that I bought last year 2022 and several older Colt carbines that I bought from 2010 to 2016.

The Colt distributor that I always buy my Colt firearms from have them currently in stock, go to galleryofguns dot com (Davidson's distributor) and search on their Genie search for Colt AR rifles.

If you have one of their dealers near where you live, you could buy it from their website with a deposit and they will deliver it to your dealer, then you pay for the remaining balance (+ NICS check and taxes) when you pick up your rifle from your dealer.
 
#20 ·
ArmsUnlimited is running the current production A4's right now for $999. They advertise them as the "Carbine" marked serial numbers and with A4 model designation, if the markings matter to anyone.
 
#23 ·
ArmsUnlimited is running the current production A4's right now for $999. They advertise them as the "Carbine" marked serial numbers and with A4 model designation, if the markings matter to anyone.
It would matter to me and if it does to anybody else looking to buy one, I'd call and verify what you would actually be getting? AU has a bad habit of "mislabeling" stuff they have for sale (and/or not updating the page when the product changes). I would verify it is in fact a Colt model # AR15A4 and what the receiver is actually marked? Starting in 2021, a real AR15A4 should come with this lower...

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#21 ·
That , or any Colt 20s are recommended above highly as so . If you want a 20 , ArmsUnlimited is a good purchase right there .
But like mike v one armed shooting ( probably Boa around his neck too ) - they are handy.
Probably best all around too , if only one in your safe .
One obviously could go 24 and put on a good telescopic example .
Green box , I like my 6520 - hopefully one day I get an ACOG in 1x or 1.5
All depends what your feeling. My 20 has surefire and Vtac .... definitely different firearm- even just a stock 20 - point being put a FVG , which I don’t like . That HBar is lights out w ACOG and factory trigger . Colts Stainless have triggers- here is one for sale, this is a badasss gun
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#22 ·
Mikes 16 , that is . Seeing op pic and rereading 20 be good - keep that bitch in back window of pickup. Here’s maybe my 20 and 24 ( 5-6 hunj Leopoldo Mark AR) ..... go nightforce if you got big cash . Just got myself a gieselleSAA for my number 1 , and recently used a Larue MBT swamp yank installed on his - GREAT VALUE option ....... ain’t our hobby great 🇺🇸
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