Great thread. I knew there must be a lot written about Colt's bluing over the years.

 

I’m in this way late but my $0.02 worth. I have heard the same thing, not only from Mike Heffron but from other sources as well. In Mike’s defense something repeated often enough becomes fact. I know I’ve believed that chemicals used were the problem. Thanks for the info - I’ve got a bunch of service revolvers in dire need of rebuying.

 

As for brightness or pure shine, I've seen some foreign made pistols that had a brilliant shine, but looking closer you see many machine marks and defects.
You can do a surface polish to get that bright shine, but the metal under it looks like a corn cob.

In the older days, it was said that Colt distributed their manufacturing money equally between a smooth interior and a polished exterior, but S&W spent their dollar on the outside to get a brighter finish, with a rougher interior.

 

It just goes to show, the amount of polishing has a lot to do with how bright and "blue" a blued finish looks. Too often we blame dull or black finishes on the chemicals used when they really aren't the determining factor.

 

Well, inspired by DSK's Brand X , M 29 no dash and a 6" made in 1972 and a 4" from 1991 pictures , I finally got around to compare my 1983 Python and my 'as new' 1978 M 14-4. Both 6 inch barrels. (sorry no picture. Too difficult to capture subtle differences.)
Both have a lustrous 'gun blue' finish.
The Python has more of an overt 'mirror' finish similar to Dsk's 29 no dash and also has a sublime blue tint. Not in your face dark blue, but almost similar to various older Colt samples. However, it is not a liquid blue as found on some Python samples that boast a nice liquid Royal Blue thanks to a master polisher.
My Brand X revolver, does exhibit moments of 'mirror' sheen but the color is a darker tone than the Python.

The Python seems to have more depth of finish.

 

Ha! Same, Sindely. I need a .350 Legend rifle this year so I can hunt with my niece in Michigan’s southern zone (I normally hunt north where traditional cartridges are legal), but I really want to save for a 6” blue Python.

 

After all these dang blued Python post I'm scared I won't be able to wait for my prized 8" and buy a 5" instead

 

With all the new Python models Colt has been releasing...and now in blue...I'm afraid the Christmas bonuses at Colt later this year will be bigger than normal because of me.

 

And so it goes....

 

As above, the Colt factory personnel stated that there was no secret bluing formula used just for the Python.
It was all in the polishing.
Colt used the same chemicals and process for all Colt firearms.

The higher level of polishing was the result in the Royal Blue finish as used on the Python and on special order for other Colt's.
As often said, while other brands were on the truck heading to the distributor, the Python was still at the factory being polished.
Colt always took polishing very seriously, to the extent that they were running a polisher's school.
New people went to class to learn the techniques, practiced until they were up to standard, then worked on the less expensive production lines for guns like the Official Police.
They started with an instructor literally looking over their shoulder and giving pointers and corrections.
Only the very best workers were allowed to polish the Python.

 

Here is my blued 2020 Python next to my 1972 S&W Model 19 in outdoor light. The Smith is brighter, but again it's because of the polishing. Indoors they both look as black as each other. Also the matte areas are the same color regardless of lighting.

 

“In 1953, when Colt's head salesman

came to him with an idea for a

new target revolver, A1 Gunther was

superintendent of all Colt manufacturing.

He was also on the verge of

his greatest achievement in a career

spent with fine handguns: he was

about to create the Colt Python.”





“The finish is something special, too.

Naturally, everyone agreed that a special

gun like this should have a special finish.

It was the first really super-deluxe finish

Colt ever put on a production gun. Contrary

to popular belief, we didn't blue the

Python with any different formula than we

used on the other guns. Polishing was the

secret.” Al Gunther



American Handgunner Jan/Feb 1977 attached

 

To be quit frank I'd venture to say there was nothing that resembled a MSDS back in those early days. Not even close. For those of you that are hot-rod enthusiast the days of good ole chrome shops have all but dried up due to stringent EPA guidelines on the chemicals and heavy metals used when chroming was in its heyday that put most of them out of business. Back in the early 70's while stationed aboard ship myself and fellow engineers were exposed to a chemical known as Zinc Chromate. It was a bright yellow liquid that was used as an additive and corrosion inhibitor in large marine diesel engines. We handled it, poured it and wiped it up w/o any knowledge how bad that stuff was. Needless to say it was later outlawed due to its toxicity. Similar, was the day when mercury was present in almost all shipboard gauge panels, etc. Hell, we had a small medicine bottle of that stuff and like young fools we would roll beads of it across a work bench. Thought it was cool. Little did we know.
Hazardous material handling and environmental controls/compliance have come a long, long way since those days. "Cradle to grave"

 

My facetious comment regarding "killing a small country" was meant to be taken as that. (I expected it to be taken as sarcasm, etc...) The point is, it was toxic. Am I mistaken? Sure it's possible! I was told by someone who should know, that 2 very toxic chemicals were present in Royal Blue. They told me about this right after the Python was no longer offered as a production item. Maybe they were handing me an excuse to justify the discontinuance of the Python? I do know that desired color, differing alloys, and different levels of polishing often require a change of ratios or additional additives and really toxic stuff has been used by various companies large and small. This is not to single out Colt!! Many "classic" gun companies have had proprietary formulas, some of which were quite dangerous. You may (or may not) have heard the story about Smith & Wesson's bluing "change" in the early 60s, which had nothing to do with danger, but rather who was doing it and how the formula was kept safely between his ears. It was buried with him.

If the old Python's Royal Blue was as simple as a high polish and a straightforward bluing formula poured from Brownell's sourced plastic jugs, everybody would have been doing it. There is also a difference regarding how much of a component is used annually. Under current regulations, you may only be allowed X amount of waste/emissions for a particular chemical annually, or you may be required to use (for example) special air treatment, special PPE, special filtration for anything exhausted outdoors, etc... that all go above and beyond the standards of conventional products and that can become cost prohibitive in a hurry. I'm not directing this toward any specific company, but chemical additives added to hot bluing have included cyanide, mercury salts, and arsenic. This is documented.

There was a failure to mention the new blued Python steel change within all of the "bluing talk". You cannot use a different steel and expect the same outcome even if the bluing stays the same. Changes have to be made. Some steels will not turn "blue" no matter how hard you try. Has anyone ever noticed how reblued Smith & Wesson revolvers (reblued by "Honest Joe's Gun Refinishing") are often plumb-colored? Have you noticed what an older blued Dan Wesson can look like with the blued frame, black barrel, and plumb sideplate? Formula vs. The Steel Used.

Regarding allegations of "cost reduction", OF COURSE! Every company has been doing it for decades. If you don't do it, you will not survive. The act of cutting costs through innovative manufacturing techniques is an absolute must. However, companies like Ruger are praised for it, and for some reason, Colt is continuously vilified for it. I'm an engineer and I have worked in manufacturing environments. When I look at a new series Python and Anaconda, I am still amazed at how they've managed it. Stronger design, tighter tolerances, improved metallurgy, and improved grouping capabilities, yet they beat inflation like a red-headed stepchild. Between Colts, Smiths, Rugers, and Dans, I work on and have worked on a gazillion (numeric value not to be taken literally) of these things, and the current Colt revolvers: Cobra/King Cobra, Python, and Anaconda have the most uniform cylinder throat dimensions going. Even after tuning well over 3000 of the new series Colts, I haven't yet found a cylinder with non-uniform throating. I have found only 2 with out-of-spec forcing cones. There have been 2 with barrel/cylinder gap issues. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW RARE THIS IS? If you worked beside me you'd find out in a hurry.

Last but not least... Corporations must get rid of waste. Toxic waste is the worst. My dad was employed at a chemical factory for over 40 years. I remember him telling me about how they got rid of their waste as dictated by the EPA. It went into stainless steel 50-gallon drums that had a seal and a lid. They would be shipped South and dropped into the ocean where they wouldn't begin leaching any contents until approximately 500 years had passed. They had to purchase the drums. They had to pay for all transport costs. Lastly, they had to pay a "Disposal Penalty" of $575 per drum. There were lots of drums. Among this waste that was SO TOXIC that its disposal required such measures? Acetylsalicylic acid; otherwise known as "aspirin".

-Mike Heffron President Heffron Precision©

 

I do agree that the old Pythons often had (have) variations of the Royal Blue. I have many myself and they all look a little different. Whether it is because of polishing differences or bluing chemical changes, I don't know. But variations do exist.

 

The Black or Blue fascination will quickly subside when the new (possibly first time) owner realizes that he or she will either put up with the Single and Double action weights as they are or start looking for a gunsmith to rework the action to meet their satisfaction. So in essence its all about the color. Period. The Royal Blue days of old are long gone. Just say'in.

 

The new blue Pythons are quite beautiful. The finish is more black than blue...not a criticism but an observation. Colt doesn't refer to it as Royal Blue...at least I haven't seen that description by Colt. Compared to an older Royal Blue the new has a great sheen to it but possibly not the deep wet look of an old Python...but even older Pythons had different levels of depth to the Royal Blue. It may be due to the ability and ethic of the finisher of the gun as much as anything.

If I have any criticism of the new blue Python is that I'm so accustomed to see a blue Colt with hammer flats left in the white and polished so an all blue hammer seems a bit out of place. This is the new Colt...not the old. New gun buyers won't know or care.

There will probably be some variations between new Pythons as well in their finish. All I can say about mine is the finish and assembly appear flawless. I have a 4.25" on backorder I ordered at the same time I purchased the 6"...when it shows up it will be interesting to compare the finishes to see whether there is any variations.

 

If I have any criticism of the new blue Python is that I'm so accustomed to see a blue Colt with hammer flats left in the white and polished so an all blue hammer seems a bit out of place. This is the new Colt...not the old. New gun buyers won't know or care.

There will probably be some variations between new Pythons as well in their finish. All I can say about mine is the finish and assembly appear flawless. I have a 4.25" on backorder I ordered at the same time I purchased the 6"...when it shows up it will be interesting to compare the finishes to see whether there is any variations.

The hammer finish doesn't bother me as much, because if it's really an issue for some they can remove the hammer and buff the sides white if they wish. As for a finish variance between blued models... I sure hope not. There has been a variance in the SS finish, with some Pythons being a bit brighter than others. Since it looks like I might have to order a blued one sight unseen I don't want to roll the dice on whether I get a shiny one or not.

 

How do the new Colt Blued Pythons compare to the older Python Royal Blue, though? I have some vintage Pythons that are so beautiful with their deep Royal Blue color that they look sort of purple. They are amazing! I know the polishing added to this end result but the chemical bluing probably can't be reproduced easily today. Any comparison to what is being cranked out by Colt with these new ones?

 

Mark III revolvers used forged frames and cylinders. It was some of the internal parts that were fabricated from sintered metal technology…an early form of MIM. The triggers, hammers and other action parts were sintered. There were reportedly some early issues with hammer breakages but that was sorted out quickly.

 

The article states the MK IIIs used a lot of sintered metal parts. Did that include the frame? If so that would be why they look black. Sintered steel doesn't take bluing well and usually has to be plated. I have a 1967 Winchester 94 with the sintered receiver, and it was plated in black chrome.

 

Bingo!

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Colt Mk III Lawman: A Forgotten Revolver

Colt introduces its Mk III series of revolvers, and the best-known of them is the Trooper. However, the Lawman was forgotten and unfairly so.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

I don't happen to have a 1969 Mark III lying around at the moment. Got one you can send me?

 

To see the difference in the Colt blues, compare a Colt mid-1960's revolver to a 1969 Mark III.
The more Black color is readily apparent when compared side to side and happens in 1969 with the discontinuing of most of the older Colt models.

 

Dfariswheel, do you think it was based on economics, work/environmental hazard concerns, or something else?

 

Colt made some sort of change in their bluing formula in 1969, when they introduced the Mark III series.
Before that Colt's bluing had a more Blue color, after it was a Black color.
Polishing will not affect the color, only the level of gloss.

 

Are you sure? The Series 70s and 80s that I owned were always a really nice deep blue color. Not black. My 1952 Gov't certainly isn't any more blue than they are. The dark finishes seem to be more of a recent thing, along with the lower level of polishing.

 

Great comments, all. Nice conversation as always on the Colt forum.