I have a Government Model that dates to 1966 that has been customized. It has a full length Bo-mar sight mounted on the slide (has been drilled & tapped), dark checkered wood panel grips, and the front of the grip frame roughly stipled. Bluing is a nice royal and at about 95%. Slide fit is tight and silky smooth, trigger is excellent with a shoe installed. When slide is removed there is a stamp inside "R.L.Shockey". I've heard of the name, how will the customization from this 'smith impact the value compared to if original? Sorry no pics as of yet, thanks for any insight...
BE Wild Willy
Colt 1911 Government / R.L.Shockey
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Since it's a gun with relatively limited appeal featuring the thoughts of at least 30 years ago, it'd most likely be worth more in original condition than current modified shape.
The trigger shoe alone's been "out of fashion" for quite a while. Easily removed, though.
It's a target piece, even though done by a "name" you'd need to find somebody who liked it.
Custom work doesn't always necessarily bring high dollar on a sale.
Denis
The trigger shoe alone's been "out of fashion" for quite a while. Easily removed, though.
It's a target piece, even though done by a "name" you'd need to find somebody who liked it.
Custom work doesn't always necessarily bring high dollar on a sale.
Denis
The gun is probably a fantastic shooter now... but has little collector appeal. If the customization brings a premium to the price, I'd be surprised. The all original guns in 98%+ condition are valuable because there has not been any work done to them. There simply are only so many original vintage guns... and they are original only once. This is one of those guns that I would cringe to see in an auction catalog. Like I said, it is probably a great shooter, it's just not my cup of tea.
I had original Commercial Colts ( post war) and many custom one's
I have to say that the old " It would be worth more if it was left along" is NOT true.
My unfired series 70 Swenson brought 5000.00 in one day on Gunsamerica.
The Pachmayr Combat Special ( on full size early series 70) brought 3500.00 and its was good deal for the buyer.
First year production 1970 Combat Commander that visited Novak's shop sold for 2000.00 in few min!
Most recently a local shop sold a 1980 Series 70 with BarSto barrel and Bomar sights plus checkering in the front for almost a thousand bucks the same day they got it.
I have to say that the old " It would be worth more if it was left along" is NOT true.
My unfired series 70 Swenson brought 5000.00 in one day on Gunsamerica.
The Pachmayr Combat Special ( on full size early series 70) brought 3500.00 and its was good deal for the buyer.
First year production 1970 Combat Commander that visited Novak's shop sold for 2000.00 in few min!
Most recently a local shop sold a 1980 Series 70 with BarSto barrel and Bomar sights plus checkering in the front for almost a thousand bucks the same day they got it.
As I mentioned, I have no desire to own any modified guns unless there is something truly unique about it. I appreciate original guns... others may appreciate modified guns. A little something for everyone I guess.
In 5 to 10 years, will those guns mentioned still be worth the same money, more money or less?? (Only time will tell.) My guns appreciate in value.
Personally, I throw up in my mouth a little every time I see a nice looking pre WWII gun that has been accurized... or worse, a military issued gun that's been worked on by 'Bubba' - or anyone for that matter. Again, that is my personal preference. I consider myself to be a collector, and I do have a pretty nice collection going... but I would not buy the gun mentioned in the original post - at any price.
Have fun flaming away at my opinion, but it won't change!
In 5 to 10 years, will those guns mentioned still be worth the same money, more money or less?? (Only time will tell.) My guns appreciate in value.
Personally, I throw up in my mouth a little every time I see a nice looking pre WWII gun that has been accurized... or worse, a military issued gun that's been worked on by 'Bubba' - or anyone for that matter. Again, that is my personal preference. I consider myself to be a collector, and I do have a pretty nice collection going... but I would not buy the gun mentioned in the original post - at any price.
Have fun flaming away at my opinion, but it won't change!
The "name" who did the work can also make a difference, along with the time frame & context.
A 1911 that passed through the hands of Armand Swenson or Frank Pachmayr personally would be worth more.
A current Novak pistol would sell for much higher than a pistol done by a lesser-known name of 30 years ago.
Shockey is nowhere near their legendary status & good as he may have been, did not have the same influence on the industry.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but I'd still maintain a '66 GM in mint condition would value higher than a '66 that had been worked on by Shockey.
A '66 GM in mint shape vs a '66 GM given the full treatment by Frank Pachmayr himself? Different ballgame.
Denis
A 1911 that passed through the hands of Armand Swenson or Frank Pachmayr personally would be worth more.
A current Novak pistol would sell for much higher than a pistol done by a lesser-known name of 30 years ago.
Shockey is nowhere near their legendary status & good as he may have been, did not have the same influence on the industry.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but I'd still maintain a '66 GM in mint condition would value higher than a '66 that had been worked on by Shockey.
A '66 GM in mint shape vs a '66 GM given the full treatment by Frank Pachmayr himself? Different ballgame.
Denis
Denis, you are absolutely correct that the person who did work on it could bring (or hurt) value. Another thing that could affect value is WHO owned the gun. A shotgun once owned by Roosevelt recently sold for $800k(+)... his name / history certainly brought a premium to the selling price!
My last post doesn't sit very well with me, so I wanted to redirect it a bit. My collection is mostly older pistols. So, my comments are heavily influenced by my experience with older pistols. If any of them were modified, the value would definitely take a huge hit. My comments about modified pistols ring far more true for the older pistols than the (relatively) newer ones.
My last post doesn't sit very well with me, so I wanted to redirect it a bit. My collection is mostly older pistols. So, my comments are heavily influenced by my experience with older pistols. If any of them were modified, the value would definitely take a huge hit. My comments about modified pistols ring far more true for the older pistols than the (relatively) newer ones.
Shockey 45
I collect and shoot Shockey pistols. Please contact me if you're thinking of selling, pics would be nice. Thanks, Mitch 38wadcutter@gmail.com
I collect and shoot Shockey pistols. Please contact me if you're thinking of selling, pics would be nice. Thanks, Mitch 38wadcutter@gmail.com
As soon as I can get a chance to get some pics I'll post. Definitely a cool looking Bullseye gun...
I just found this forum tonight and joined up.....I'm a Colt guy, you see.
My Dad was a bullseye shooter in the 50's and 60's. He had a Shockey .45 that had the front sight sticking out on a limb about an inch and a half or so forward of the muzzle. Always trying to get that "edge". As I remember, it was a wonderful gun that was well built and did the job quite well. Shockey was very big in the bullseye game in his day.
My Dad was a bullseye shooter in the 50's and 60's. He had a Shockey .45 that had the front sight sticking out on a limb about an inch and a half or so forward of the muzzle. Always trying to get that "edge". As I remember, it was a wonderful gun that was well built and did the job quite well. Shockey was very big in the bullseye game in his day.
That takes me back a while.
The gunshop I've done business with for many years had a competition 1911 set up with that front sight extension for sale about 35 years ago. It was considered outdated & something of a curiosity piece then. Think it sat there under glass for quite a while.
I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen.
Denis
The gunshop I've done business with for many years had a competition 1911 set up with that front sight extension for sale about 35 years ago. It was considered outdated & something of a curiosity piece then. Think it sat there under glass for quite a while.
I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen.
Denis
Another thing one has to take into consideration with custom or hand built guns, is the use or fashion of the day. Pachmyar and Swenson built 'combat' style pistols in the early days. Those guns can still be used as a shooter, range, or carry gun. Shockey was known for and built mostly match pistols; a sport popular in the era but unfortunately seems to have withered since then. The match pistols and revolvers are pretty much single purpose. I have to add that match pistolsmiths even today, seem to focus on function over looks- thus there are a LOT of good shooting handguns and rifles out there that most consider butt ugly. Name counts, too. A plain, good condition, late 60s GM nowadays sells for say, $800-$1500. That same gun tricked out by Swenson with his signature touches and marked by him would go for $3500-$5000. A gun built the same way, that anyone would consider quality work or even a bit better but unmarked or marked by an unknown, would probably go for more towards the stock gun's price.
I collect custom 1911s and revolvers. I shoot and carry them as well. My recommendation is always pay a little extra in money (and usually time!) to have a 'name' smith modify your gun as there is a MUCH greater chance that you will get the return on your investment if you need to sell it as opposed to another "bubba'd" gun on the market.
A10ACN
I collect custom 1911s and revolvers. I shoot and carry them as well. My recommendation is always pay a little extra in money (and usually time!) to have a 'name' smith modify your gun as there is a MUCH greater chance that you will get the return on your investment if you need to sell it as opposed to another "bubba'd" gun on the market.
A10ACN
I have a Shockey as well (1922 commercial). It is a wonderful shooter. That being said. It is also an historical piece. Technology has progresses. I took the match sights off and now use it as a carry piece. You can always take the match goodies off and shoot it the way you want.
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