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Enlighten a dummy: difference in Single Action Army and Frontier Six Shooter

9.2K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  togglelink  
#1 ·
Just curious, anyone's thoughts on when and why the two names....and differences between the two?
 
#5 ·
Peace Maker (45) and Frontier Six Shooter (44) were both names given to the Colt products by an early Colt's distributor, Benjamin Kittredge. The Single Action Army was the US Government's name for the .45 caliber Colt handgun that won the 1873 Military contract. Same gun was also known later by Kittredge's nick name, the "Peace Maker". Catchy marketing :)
 
#11 ·
Regarding the Texas rangers, their switch to the .45 Colt also was advanced by the fact they did often get ammo for free from the Army, and of course, the Army never used the .44-40.

Regarding the reliability... There was the whole sticky chamber thing that had been documented on a few occasions. Back in the early '90's I was absolutely fascinated by this issue and tried to replicate it. I had a 4 3/4" nickel Colt at the time, new brass and all the resources I needed to re-create the issue. Here's what I found...

It's EXCEEDINGLY tough to reproduce cylinder lockup with a .44-40. Knowing that lubrication in a chamber has been known to raise pressure, I started there; and I couldn't get cartridges to stick. So I then tried water (water was used to clean BP revolvers), and it wasn't until I literally dunked the revolver into a bucket of water that I got pressure to rise enough to actually lock the cylinder.

My next step was to radically over-lubricate the cylinder & chamber with oil, and I finally got it to lock up.

All this is to say, it appears to me the issue was probably user induced. The one variable I never had the opportunity to investiage is ammunition quality issues. Such a thing could be endemic to early .44-40 cartridges, or perhaps problems with one or two manufacturers, or lots of ammo. There are a lot of variables with the ammo that could have happened back in the day, and unless you have access to large quantities of ammo from the 1870's, from multiple manufacturers, I don't know we'll ever REALLY know what happened with early Colt's in .44-40.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Problem with the early 44-40 ammo in a Colt was high pressure and the earliest primers backing out, poor firing pin fit on the bushing and the resulting jammed up gun. The Army was notoriously stingy with giving ammo to any one including their own troops if they had any to spare.

Doesn't really matter how or why the 44-40 wcf wasn't initially reliable during 1878 and beyond in the Colt but it wasn't according to first hand accounts from the time period. By 1884 when the 38wcf and 32wcf cartridges were chambered in the Colt the problems had ben solved to make the true cartridge combos a reality and a huge success. But a lot had happened in America between 1873 and 1884 in the firearms industry as well.

It doesn't take much to lock up a SAA in any caliber even today. Just a bit of primer flow does it every time. Watch any SASS match when the temps get over 100F and it happens, with shooters stashing their ammo in coolers to keep even the light loaded ammo from doing the same. BTDT myself :)
 
#14 ·
The Army was notoriously stingy with giving ammo to any one including their own troops if they had any to spare.
Most of the time that’s true, but there are numerous sources that document Texas Rangers changing to .45 Colt and .30-06 so they can get ammunition from the Army. I'm sure it probably happened with other cartridge, but these are the two specific cartridges I vividly recall reading about. But it makes sense that it probably happened prior to the days of the .30-06.

I suspect this was more special circumstance rather than normal practice. Since the Texas Rangers were a paramilitary force, there were many times where they were enforcing and even fighting on the border alongside the Army. There were also certain ranger forces that worked more with the army than others. So while it’s not something that happened often, or even the norm, the practice is well documented.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Couple of points worth mentioning I think. Everyone, Texas Rangers included, started using the Colt Revolver in 45 Caliber. I was the only gun Colt produced from 1873 to 1878. And there weren't a huge number of them available at any one time. It wasn't like the I phone roll outs we see today. Modern technology in 1873 didn't mean everyone instantly had a '73 carbine in 44-40 and wanted a hand gun to match. Point being, folks didn't migrate to using the 45 Colt. It was the only game in town for 5 years. What the Army did supply was a steady supply of "lost" and stolen Colt SAAs to the civilian market. Just as they would do 35 years later with the 1911.

Hard for us to get out head wrapped around that I suspect.

As mentioned prior. The US Army sharing anything was pretty much a non starter. If you are discussion time frames from 1873 to the mid 1920s then yes, lots of documentation in the later time frame of the US Army supplying the Rangers with ammo.

Things changed with Winchester and Colt and within the US greatly in just 5 year time spans. More so in just 10 years. 1873 to 1884 is a classic example of the advancements in technology. 1884 to 1900 even more so.

Cases stuck in a 44-40 chamber wasn't the issue. Those you can pound out to the determent of the ejector rod. It was the cylinder bound up at the firing pin. When you literally can't cycle the gun, (turn the cylinder) things get real tough to repair in the field.
 
#16 ·
Cases stuck in a 44-40 chamber wasn't the issue. Those you can pound out to the determent of the ejector rod. It was the cylinder bound up at the firing pin. When you literally can't cycle the gun, (turn the cylinder) things get real tough to repair in the field.
I had that problem occasionally in my FSS until I sent it to Jim Martin.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I like history. And spend a lot of time reading about it.

One of the things I was taken aback by was how scarce the Colt SAA revolver was early on. And how, what was available, early didn't work all that well. 44-40 Colt jammed up on their introduction. The SAA Army blew up on occasion at their introduction (hence the lighter loads for the US Army early on). The 1873 Winchester was a big hit right off, but the extractor failed to work on occasion. Stuck cases in any 44 Rimfire, Henry '66 or conversion were not uncommon. That is why a few kept their cap an ball guns around much longer than I would have expected and then eventually converted those when the ammunition became more reliable.

"Keep your powder dry" was a reality not just a funny saying.

Cartridge conversion Colts (and all the rest) and the Henry and '66 lever guns were used in great numbers long after the Colt 1873 and Winchester '73 were introduced. Thousands of 1873 Winchesters were sold every year long after the 1892 and 1894 were introduced.

Winchester Model 1873 (gun-data.com)

Every time I look into something about early Western arms and what is written about their use I am surprised at what I find. And I usually end up arguing with myself at what I find, thinking, "that wouldn't have happened". But the truth is often not what we think it should have been.
 
#20 ·
I like history. And spend a lot of time reading about it.

One of the things I was taken aback by was how scarce the Colt SAA revolver was early on. And how, what was available, early didn't work all that well. 44-440 Colt jammed up on their introduction. The SAA Army blew up on occasion at their introduction (hence the lighter loads for the US Army early on). The 1873 Winchester was a big hit right off, but the extractor failed to work on occasion.

Cartridge conversion Colts and the Henry and '66 lever guns were used in great numbers long after the Colt 1873 and Winchester '73 were introduced. Thousands of 1873 Winchesters were sold every year long after the 1892 and 1894 were introduced.

Winchester Model 1873 (gun-data.com)

Every time I look into something about early Western arms and what is written about their use I am surprised at what I find. And I usually end up arguing with myself at what I find, thinking, "that wouldn't have happened". But the truth is often not what we think it should have been.
I am right there with you, so much of our (firearms) history has been distorted by so called “historians“ that have never even fired or researched the item they were writing about, or took their information from “past” written mistakes!
 
#21 · (Edited)
Along those lines.

I was cutting up some bacon this morning. Trimming the fat and loosing half the volume of my bacon. I can't even imagine what my Grandparents would have thought of such opulence and waste.

They were born to a world with no social security, lived through the Spanish Flu, the Depression and two World Wars. Guns were seldom bought for pleasure but simply a tool that was required as needed. Any gun has always been expensive for the common man.

My Grandparents and my parents didn't live on credit as much of the modern world does today. There were no economic stimulus checks to be wasted on a new handgun buy.

I can't imagine any of them waiting around, money in hand, to buy the newest and greatest firearm.....or tractor or car for that matter.
 
#22 ·
Your grandparents most likely needed the extra fat for the calories. They worked from before dawn until after dark. Look at what we as a country did before we had the machinery to do the work for us. Imagine walking miles behind a horse and plow in the furrow. Imagine getting up at 4 am to round up cows, change horses several times because they are worn out, then go to bed on the hard, cold, wet ground for a few hours before doing it all over again. I look at old railroad grades, old earthen dams, irrigation systems and wonder how they had the energy and fortitude to do it.
 
#23 ·
"Your grandparents most likely needed the extra fat for the calories"

My point exactly. They simply couldn't afford to trim the fat off the bacon. It wasn't just money we are discussing here. It is a different life style. I get that. Just glad we don't have to work that hard or near the bone. Life is good.

731136
 
#24 ·
Regarding the naming of the SAA in .44-40, the credit should go to J.P. Moore's Sons Wholesale Gun Dealers at 300 Broadway, New York City. On Jan. 17, 1878 they wrote to Colt treasurer Hugh Harbison regarding the "New Model," asking that the phrase Frontier Six Shooter be acid etched on the barrels. The letter goes on to state, "We propose to advertise and push it lively now and want it under a name. We'll soon have our chicken the cock of the walk."

I have this from a transcription of the original letter in the possession of a collector in Texas. Wilkerson's book (The Official Record), on page 66, has the same content but with slight variations in the wording.