You would need to post a serial number and detailed photos for the experts here to assess. Being in Italy, you have two gun makers who make copies of the 1851 navy, Uberti and Pietta. I have an Uberti 1851 replica that I am very fond of.

 

As suggested, here some photos and serial number #212042 of my revolver.
Thanks for help.
ciao

 

Check for gain twist rifling. Originals have this - repros do not.

 

Hi, I checked and see counter clockwise rifling direction into the barrel (if you mean this otherwise please, clarify what you mean).
thanks ciao

 

Gain twist means that the rifling gets "tighter" as it moves towards the end of the barrel. It starts at a lower twist rate and ends at a higher one.

Here's my Italian Navy replica

 

I am NOT any kind of expert on Colt black powder revolvers, but the serial number indicates that a Colt 1851 with that number was made in 1871.
The serial numbers that year started at 212000.
1872 started at 214000.

Better quality photos will help the experts here to make a better attempt as to whether it's a genuine Colt.

 

Thanks for the comment, I'll try to put better quality photos. I also tried to check on Colt's manufacturing Lcc website by serial number and coming: Year of manufacture: 1871 - model: 1851 NAVY (.36 CALIBER WITH NAVAL ENGAGEMENT ON CYLINDER, OCTAGONAL BARREL).....but this is not deep information.

 

The barrel appears to be slightly shorter than we would expect, and many screws do not fit well.
The grips should not have a screw passing through them, but they may be hand-made replacements.
We do not see any kind of cylinder scene, but on very worn guns it has often gone.

The markings look right, but I have a 19th-c. fake here with all the correct markings, only the cylinder scene (engraved, not rolled) gives it away.

 

The barrel appears to be slightly shorter than we would expect, and many screws do not fit well.
The grips should not have a screw passing through them, but they may be hand-made replacements.
We do not see any kind of cylinder scene, but on very worn guns it has often gone.

The markings look right, but I have a 19th-c. fake here with all the correct markings, only the cylinder scene (engraved, not rolled) gives it away.

Hello Mk VII, thanks for your comment firstly. I measured barrel length and its 7,28 inch (185 mm) instead of 7,1/2 inch (190 mm). The weight is correct: 1,19 Kg. I look gap with cylinder too much for my point of view. I don't know if this result comes from worm condition and restoring tentative in the past bad done. The frame pin moving and I would restore. Also the grip I know that no one have screw passing through it (I'm searching colt spare parts but I don't find store in US with international shipment available). The cylinder doesn't has navy scene and for some screws (not fitting well) due to pitch worm conditions I gonna to replace with Uberti spare parts (easy to find in Italy like Pietta as well). I would be sure if at the end of story, its an genuine Colt's revolver before invest money to restore properly.
thanks ciao

 

Daniele, as Tranter45 wrote, the only way to be sure that your Colt is original is to look closely at the rifling. If the twist is the same on all the length of the barrel, then it is not an original. If the twist becomes more pronounced going from the cone to the muzzle, then it is an original.

 

"Gain-twist" rifling may be explained by this image. The idea was to start the soft lead bullets spinning slowly and then increase the bullet's rotation (and its stability in flight) as it proceeded to the end of the barrel. Rifling in which the rotation was too "aggressive" at the beginning might cause the grooves made in the bullet to "strip" - similar to what occurs when a screw is over-tightened, ruining the threads. Perhaps someone with an original barrel can post images of the Colt "gain-twist" rifling for comparison. I do not see much if any "gain twist" in your pictures, but that may only be a limitation of photography.

 

Hello po18guy. Thanks for the explanation. I don't have internal camera unfortunately so, the pictures are not clear so much. the "gain twist" is not visible too much but it seems that, the twist becomes more pronounced going from the cone to the muzzle. I'm not sure of course. Do you know if there's another methods to check to define if its an original colt or not?
Thanks

 

Make sure you have a pistol cleaning ram rod that has swivel handle in which the rod easily swivels free of the handle to follow the rifling inside the barrel. Screw on an appropriate sized eyelet at the end of the rod. Patch the eyelet. Place a small pencil mark on the rod near the handle parallel to the rod. Pull the wedge on the left side of the gun. Remove the barrel from the receiver. With a ruler measure the distance it takes for the rod swivels one time as you feed it into the breach of the barrel while holding only the handle. Write that the distance on a piece of paper. Next, continue to push the rod toward the end of the barrel. If you have a barrel with progressive gain twist, the second rotation of the rod will will require a shorter lineal distance than the first rotation.

The above instruction is is intended to only demonstrate a method that can be used; however, due to the short length of a pistol barrel you will have to contend with using a set of 1/4 turns of a rotation (or even a set of 1/8 turns of a rotation) instead of the make believe set of two full rotations I used for descriptive purposes in the first paragraph to measure the lineal distance.

 

Could be a Brevette…

 

hello gri; good point, not all "brevette's" are marked as such or proofed.

regards, bro

 

It sure looks like an original to me.

 

Hi dandak, all marks that I learned around are present on revolver except cylinder scene reproduction. I don't know if all revolvers have to get the same marks or could be miss for some reason, destination or version produced by Colt.

 

Your barrel address was used by Colt from about 101000 to 215000 which matches your serial. The lever latch on yours is the thick style, used from 165000 to 215000, again correct for your revolvers serial. Same with the barrel lug (thick style, 165000 to 215000). From 118500 to 215000 there was, on most frames, a milled groove called a 'cap slot' going through the recoil shield, visible on the right side of the frame. Does yours have this? In addition the recoil shield cut out on the right is 1/8" smaller than serials before 118500 so height of the cutout should be around 0.812" from top to bottom at the widest. Lets see what else....hammer knurling should be the 'loose' type and not have a border. Your trigger guard is the large rounded type correct for 85000 to 215000. As I stated above yours looks original. No cylinder scene to me is not an indication of originality or not. The scene was often weakly rolled on and wears away fast, although the serial number is almost always still visible. The font of the serials I do see looks correct. The grips were almost always 1 piece grips. Did yours crack into 2 and someone used a screw? When you have them apart can you tell if it was originally a one piece grip? I get most of my info from Swayze's book. He states that ".36 cal." was always stamped on the trigger guard on the left side after serial 140000. Use a magnifier on yours to see if any trace survived the beating that took place on the brass there. Inspectors initial or numbers were not found on any Navy's after serial 194000.
Hope this helps. There are fixable issues with your Navy. The screw head for the loading lever should be on the left side. Is there a serial on the loading lever? If the grips are originally one piece I would glue them back together and try to fill the hole if you are good at that kind of stuff (match the grain direction, color, etc). A replacement wedge can be fitted, maybe not advisable since the current one is patina'd to the gun. My only concern would be the cylinder...is a serial there? Even if a replacement it has certainly been with the gun awhile since the patina matches the rest of the gun.
Does everything cycle and is it timed well?
I do not think it is a Brevet or imitation at all. Brevets were authorized by Colt and thus they had no reason to exactly use the same roll marks etc., and in fact I cannot recall seeing a brevet that did. Imitations on the other hand never did the exact job the way Colt did.....you see this in funny shaped triggerguards and goofy grips and odd barrel lugs and funny barrel to grip angles. If I saw your gun at a gun show, based solely on the photos you provided, I would not question its originality except maybe the cylinder. Thats my 2 cents worth in any case, and probably what my opinion would bring!!! I certainly am no expert by any means, I just love 51 Navy's (and 1866 Winchesters) and look at every single one I run across.
If you can post a few photos of the right side and use a magnifier on the TG (and on the cylinder too for a trace of a serial).

 

Hello dandak, thanks again for your very deep info. Here others photos hoping better than others. 36.cal is light visible due to worm condition. For Grip yes, someone before me have broken internal spacer and put screw (I'm going to repair with walnut wood American varieties), see pencil's route to identify right shape. Others mark around the pistol I don't see using magnifying also. The cylinder doesn't has any serial number (I check with magnifying lens).
Thanks

 

While I agree that it is a poor condition original, it is important when looking at these guns to remember they made Brevettes. In Europe you would be more likely to encounter a Brevette than a US made Colt. The markings can be the same as shown in attached photo.

 

Hello Gri, following info learning on internet other model of 1851 navy was steel made the trigger Gard and Backstrap and not in Brass as US original version and the marking on Barrel Top was --- Address Col. Colt London ---- right?

 

well, and i believe the brevettes are also to be considered originals only in a sub-category b.t.w., i have not heard anything about the kreigsmarine austrian 1847 dragoons in 12-15 years. i think they were generally becoming regarded as authentic and original. in which case they (all handful or so) all must have fallen down the rabbit hole not to be noticed for a long time to come.

 

One thing of note is the lack of European gun proofs. The gun would have been brought there by the owner, rather than sold there.

 

Perhaps an American volunteer in the Army of Vosges fighting with Garibaldi in the Franco-Prussian War.

 

Understood, I read some information regarding Garibaldi engagement in the war of two world. Perhaps could be arrive in Italy following someone at that time.

 

This sure looks like an original Colt to me

 

Dear gentleman.
Thanks all of you for comments and explanations written but, I discovered that, my Colt even if original has the inner barrel damaged. My weapons restorer found drill imprinting done by someone before and muzzle barrel with rasp sign. here attached some photos.
Thanks all of you for support and discussion but at the end of story, the revolver is a simple iron good, no firearms anymore.

 

Dear gentleman.
Thanks all of you for comments and explanations written but, I discovered that, my Colt even if original has the inner barrel damaged. My weapons restorer found drill imprinting done by someone before and muzzle barrel with rasp sign. here attached some photos.
Thanks all of you for support and discussion but at the end of story, the revolver is a simple iron good, no firearms anymore.

The historical value of the gun is still there.

 

Love this thread - love the awesome help given , which definitely is involved.
Dandak’s is definitely A+ effort , and he thinks it’s real . Obviously all posters are investing help. Great also to see the more than a couple international help . Just says a lot about worldwide COLT love .

Daniele - good to see your great attempt at written English language. This IS the place for Colts , we have information on everything COLT . And the members contributions is what makes it so great ! Your post enlightened me on numerous things and detailed info on an ICONIC model which I now know a lot more about - thanks to your post, so Grazie Mille !

 

Daniele, a barrel liner is in fact a new barrel which is inserted in the old one

 

Patbar, ok I got it.

 

Information: someone know, how is it possible to get Colt Navy blueprint to try to replace some parts damaged?
Thanks

 

hello, numrich parts has schematics. google for access.

regards, bro

 

original Colt Navy. old and worn...1871 mfg as stated, gain twist rifling, lots of work on it.
Lots of work to restore but possible. I've done it a lot...
get parts for 'originals'. Italian parts will NOT fit.
Here are a couple of mine that I restored. Ken

 

original Colt Navy. old and worn...1871 mfg as stated, gain twist rifling, lots of work on it.
Lots of work to restore but possible. I've done it a lot...
get parts for 'originals'. Italian parts will NOT fit.
Here are a couple of mine that I restored. Ken View attachment 801761

Usually, Uberti parts, except screws, fit well on originals.

 

The op apparently has no further interest in the topic .

Good hunting .