Prior to and during WWI, the various differing Manufacturers of the Colt Model of 1911 used slightly differerent checkering schedulings or lines per inch.

So, even period correct Scales will have differences from one another when from differeing manufacturers.

None were ever marked that I know of as for who made them, let alone when.

Of course, since these all would fit the same Pistol, one ends up seeing Frankfurt Arsenal or other Scales on Colt Pistols, or vise versa, where, people switched to a better pair at some point, likely never suspecting there was any difference.

Anyway, on Automatic Pistols, the Wood or other material portions for the Hand to grasp the Frame, are called Scales.

On Revolvers, they are called Stocks.

The 'Grip' is that portion of the Pistol or Revolver Frame, on which the Scales or Stocks are attached for the Hand to be comfortable.

 

As one who believes correct nomenclature is very important, I have never heard of Colt automatic pistol stocks being identified as "scales." When I get factory letters from Colt on a Colt automatic pistol, there is a listing for "Type of Stocks." All of the literature, up until the early 1970s when some copy person precipitated the decline of Colt by using the term "grips" in sales literature and thereby offending the Gun God, all Colt catalogs use the term "stocks."

In my opinion, since long Colt history uses the term "stocks" as the name of the pieces of wood or other material on the area of the firearm where one grasps the firearm, that is the correct term to use. Not even a misguided copy writer has ever used the term "scales" to identify the stocks on a Colt.

Where is the evidence that Colt ever used the term "scales?" Or is this an early April Fools joke to stir up those of us who stress nomenclature correctness?

 

?? Do you have a set of stocks that you are trying to identify, or do you need a set for a pistol you have? If you have them in hand, please post pictures - there are several people who will quickly tell you what they are. If you need a set, things change a bit - you will have to match the condition of the gun with proper stocks... which is no small feat!

 

Colt early M1911 grips 1912 to 1919.

Then you have several variations from 1923 thru 1945 for the M1911 Improved Model to M1911A1.

 

Sorry about my mis-speak, meant to say 'Springfield' but somehow said 'Frankfurt'...overworked, over tired.


Far as I recall, anyone curious to do so may regard the actual Colt notes and terminology of the day, or Books which focus on the early Automatics from the period when the Automitics were being introduced, to find the word 'Scales' being used to describe their Stocks.


Or just ask any of the more informed Collectors of the early Colt Automatics.

'Scales' is also the term usually used from times passed and into the present, when refering to the Stocks which occur on Knives.


Possibly the term was adopted for use in refering to the Stocks used on Automatics, since they also were flat, slab-ish, and, relatively non sculpted, compared to those of Revolvers.

 

My literature collection is at my office so I could not conveniently check it when the "scales" issue arose over the weekend. This morning I have finally found a minute to check for the use of "scales" in any Colt literature I have, and post my findings.

The oldest catalog I have that shows the automatics is 1902. That catalog uses the word "stocks," not "scales." All newer Colt catalogs use the word "stocks" exclusively. Unless a 1900 catalog showing the Model 1900 automatic uses the word "scales," I suspect the use of "scales" for "stocks" is an early automatic collector affectation, not Colt factory nomenclature. Based on that, I do not think the word "scales" is proper for identifying the stocks on any Colt automatic.

 

Hi JudgeColt, all,


Maybe this was so.

The term was given me in the 1980s by some of the at the time pre-eminent Colt Automatic Collectors and, it was said to have been the term which Colt used.

I myself had refered to the Stocks as 'Stocks' prior to having been given ( what I tooik to be the ) correction, where-in I was told they are properly called 'Scales'.

Possibly some mis-understanding had occurred...and I have unwittingly been furthering the misunderstanding since, in correcting others or in variously asserting the term 'Scales'.


Let's keep looking though, just in case?


If your Catalogues of the early period are calling the Stocks 'Stocks', it does indeed seem that I have been mistaken.


Maybe it was a transient M1900 related term? - which was short lived and or used in house only, even if the term Stocks was used otherwise or in the Catalogues..?

If Colt 'Letters' do not find the term 'Scales' occuring in the original shipping detail documents, then I would have to say I have been entirely mistaken.


Oye...


Lol...

Thanks for checking in this.

 

For what it's worth, I've heard grip makers refer to the 'blanks' set aside for the manufacture of grips, as 'scales'. Such is the case with Brown's Custom Grips as seen here:

http://brownscustomgrips.weebly.com/available-for-sale.html

 

Clawson books or www.coolgunsite.com have info.

 

Curiosity led me to my American Heritage Dictionary wherein I found this:
Scale: 3. A small thin piece of anything.

OK before I getted blasted, let me say that as far as I know "stocks" is the correct term, but seems to have evolved to "grips". Somehow I vaguely recall the "scales" term, but if it was refering to the actual pistol stocks or stock blanks I cannot recall.

By definition the stock blanks for handguns would be correctly refered to as "scales".

 

I was mostly curious if their were any inspectors stampings or markings to help identify them (kind of like some of the Colt military revolver grips/stocks).

 

No - the walnut stocks had no markings. As someone mentioned earlier, you have to go by checkering row counts, and knowledge. Military 1912 - 1919 pistols had double diamond walnut stocks; 1924 and 1937 through early 1941 had full checkered walnut stocks.

 

grips

Look on the coolgunsite, i have learned to count the rows of checkering between the diamonds to tell the difference between colt grips and the other pistol grips.

 

"Scales" may correctly describe the physical nature of the stocks on a Colt pistol, and "grips" may be a term of popular usage, but the whole point of my argument is that we should use the term that Colt uses on a Colt forum. Until Colt archive letters start coming with "Type of grips" instead of Type of Stocks," I submit that we should use the term "stocks."

 

I realize this is late, but the stocks or grip panels as they are referred to in my readings vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. the easiest way to tell is counting the lines per inch of checkering. Colt used 14 lines per inch, Springfield used 15, and Remington-UMC used 13-13.5 per inch on the wood stocks. On the plastic stocks, the lines can be counted between the screw holes and using a reference guide the manufacturer can be determined. Colt had Coltwood and Coltrock plastic grip panels. The other WWII grip panels were produced by Keyes Fibre and have mould numbers on the inside. Reinforcing ribs show up during that time as well. Interestingly they still varied in lines per inch according to the pistol manufacturers specifications. That is a very compact "nutshell" answer to your question. I highly reccomend anyone out there intereted in a very detailed reference book invest in Joe Poyer's book on the 1911 and 1911A1. At $36 bucks it is a wealth of information on all things 1911. And no I am not an actor or paid spokesman.

 

First let me disclaim any status as an expert. However, I have been collecting Colt automatic pistols for over 30 years, have an extensive collection of literature and books dating back to the inception of Colt pistols and currently serve on the Board of Directors and as the Historian for the Colt Collectors Association. I have certainly heard the term "scales" applied to knives but NEVER for the stocks (or grips) on Colt pistols.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

First let me disclaim any status as an expert. However, I have been collecting Colt automatic pistols for over 30 years, have an extensive collection of literature and books dating back to the inception of Colt pistols and currently serve on the Board of Directors and as the Historian for the Colt Collectors Association. I have certainly heard the term "scales" applied to knives but NEVER for the stocks (or grips) on Colt pistols.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

FWIW, I've heard all three used ...... but "grips" or "grip panels" seems to be the current vogue within the circles I frequent.