DH, next time ask them to send photo's of the box before the auction.....

They have done this for me no problem.....sorry about the mess....RR

 

To answer: Yes they should know.

 

You would think that, as a resource, they would have membership here.

 

All RIA does is sell someone else's stuff.

That's it.

They don't serve as an authenticator - just as a seller - and they charge both parties for the privilege.

I have no doubt that someone there knows the difference between real and faked boxes, but calling out the alarm doesn't make the sale, and so there's a gamble.

Now that you're going to return the piece - the next bidder will be contacted, and he may not care about cellulose at all.

 

All RIA does is sell someone else's stuff.

That's it.

They don't serve as an authenticator - just as a seller - and they charge both parties for the privilege.

I have no doubt that someone there knows the difference between real and faked boxes, but calling out the alarm doesn't make the sale, and so there's a gamble.

Yes they should know the difference, and they probably do, but this comment sums it up quite well IMO.

 

As many arms that are listed and sold I can see how something like that could slip through.

 

If it were just a general auction house, I would have no expectation they would know if a box was fake or not. However, RIA is a specialty auction house whose specialty is firearms; in fact being undoubtedly the top gun auction company. Coupled with the fact they advertise and do "evaluations" for people to determine an expected monetary outcome of auctioning any particular piece, I think they should be able to legitimize that evaluation with at least a moderate ability to determine a fake box. In fact, if they can determine that, and are NOT doing it, they are knowingly propagating a fraud and justifying it with the "we sell what the customer tells us" excuse (i.e. just keeping their head in the sand to avoid confirming what they likely know). Bottom line, I would be pissed. I hope you get your money back, sans hassles.

 

Rock Island specializes in moving merchandise and making a commission. That's what they are good at. I'd be surprised if they average more than 5 minutes analyzing a gun, maybe less. They publish outdated info as gospel and will resell the same discredited gun over and over again as long as they get their cut. Plus, they only give you a couple of pictures.

By the way, the other auction houses aren't much better, if any.

 

They advertised it as an original numbered box so yes they should know the difference.

 

Well when they sent me pictures of the box it was not correct for the gun so I choose not to bid.....

You really can't expect them to do YOUR research....they are there to sell STUFF...it just happens to be weapons....

I am sure the box WAS numbered to the gun but not by COLT and the guy that checked it in took the owners description....why wouldn't he...RR

 

The amount of time it would take for them to send individual pictures to individual requests would be a lot greater than simply posting more pictures online. I would think it is a "calculated" move to only make the additional pictures available on request -- with them relying on people's "laziness" and "trustworthiness" to not ask for more pictures and just rely on their description.

I see the business practice of adding a "buyer's premium" as being slightly "deceptive" too -- as it is human nature to focus on the price one bids and not add, in one's mind, the additional buyer's premium that will be added after the sale.

They are in business to "make money" -- and I would agree to an extent with those arguing that they cannot be experts on everything -- but would see their behaviors of not publishing more photos, and using buyer-premiums, as relying on human weaknesses to help them make more money. Personally, I don't like that "direction" in business practices, even though I have no difficulty avoiding being affected by it.

 

You have to consider the plethora of guns they move, there's everything from flintlocks to contemporary guns. Quite frankly, I wouldn't even expect them to be experts on the guns, let alone the accessories. The boxes add a whole new dimension (just like manuals, hang tags, holsters, shoulder stocks, cleaning kits and other factory stuff), so it would be impossible to have in-house expertise on everything. It would take an enormous staff to do that, and I simply wouldn't believe them if they said that they know everything about every gun ever made.

One of the latest additions to my library is a book about different grip types and magazines for the P.38 pistols. A 258 page book only on that topic. Would you think that RIA's staff would be fit to authenticate the grips on a P.38, then check out a Colt box and authenticate it as being the correct vintage and factory original?

I'm not trying to defend them, just being realistic. I guess my bottom line is that you have to look at them as a "Jack of all trades, master of none", and provide the expertise yourself.

 

IMO they should know the difference about boxes and also be very careful on their descriptions of stuff. The are, or were members here on the forum:

Rock Island Auction

In the last auction they had a nice Cattlebrand engraved SAA that the stated was engraved by Cole Agee and owned by Roy Rogers. I called their support line as I saw nothing in the pictures of the documentation that said anything about Cole Agee. They called me back and stated they would not change their description because they called the owner and the owner told them "that is what he was told." They are an auction house just out to sell as much as possible in order to get the 15% buyers premium as well as the 12% sellers fee. Do your research as best as you can before buying from them. IMO

By the way, someone bought it for $57000 with no documentation. So they must have known something about it. I hope.

 

Perhaps there might be a consultant on sight providing his/her independent professional services to bidders. Bidders could share the fee. Some of the high end items would certainly justify a little hand holding. Or...we could just hang the crooks!

 

Well for 27% I guess sending a guy a few extra pictures isn't a lot to ask....RR

 

Actually the commission is normally about 35%. The buyers premium of 15% and seller normally pays 20%. They do make an exception on sellers end to bring in high dollar guns IE 15% on sellers end. They have there place in the market for me, I have bought several very nice hard to find guns through them, usually they are not a bargain but I am happy because they are hard to find and I have no trouble figuring BP into my bids and realizing exactly how much I'm bidding.

 

Serious question ? What is Rock Islands inspection period terms ? Do you get your money back ? Shipping ? Anyone know ? Just curious.

 

It appears if the Bold Headline for the item is incorrect they will refund. Here is a link to the guarantee policy:

RIAC Privacy Policy

 

Of course they should know the difference ! And they should take it back,will they thou ?I would not put them as the top auction firm in the firearms business,one of say the top three,sure.
I like the auction houses that will refund the money if there is a "material" mistake in the description. I have had auction house call me on lots I have bid on before to tell me of a much less important change in the description then a fake box and papers, before the auction starts to see if I want to change my bid.

here is the policy from RIA website:

"Descriptions in the catalog are opinion. They are written as an aid to potential bidders. We acknowledge that there may be errors in what is written. Bottom line is if you bid on it and you are successful you own it."

 

Just so's you're all aware, some auction houses only photograph the 'good' side, as well - using light oil on that side, and light grease on the other.

They depend upon both distance and 'auction fever' to push their sales along - and bet on the customer who got taken to not push the issue, because of embarrassment.

After all, 'he' is the supposed 'subject matter expert' - and if others see the 'expert' bidding, follow along, and raise the price exponentially - as it will as the fever to possess builds - then for that same individual's fallibility to be proven damages his credibility.

The purchased piece - 'bought too early' - is eventually run through auction after a couple of years, after folks have forgotten about it, and usually by a 'straw man' with no connection to the guy who'd gotten bit.

Next time you're thinking about an auction - think about this, then think about what your maximum bid would be if you saw the same piece at a Tulsa or Las Vegas table.

Add in shipping and handling and FFL fees and don't forget the 'Buyer's Premium' ( Whoever thought 'that' one up was a genius...), and ask yourself if you'd pay 'that' price to own the piece.

If you would - Happy Bidding!

 

Good!

 

As I previously mentioned, I was suppose to have received the 'refund in full' via a WIRE TRANSFER yesterday (Monday), as I sent the gun back last week & spoke to my rep on Friday who said the WIRE was being set up to go out on Monday.

It is now Tuesday late afternoon and still no WIRE. I just called to speak to the rep who is handling my issue and they keep saying that she is busy.

I will update this thread one more time to confirm that the refund was indeed issued ...

 

Deleted

 

Very unfortunate situation and hope it gets resolved. In this day and age, no way should a wire transfer take that much time. Once they had received the gun (you did get confirmation of that I assume), all it should take is a few key strokes and it is done, all electronically. I would be concerned too if I kept getting the "she is busy" answer. They weren't too busy to sell it to you! Ron

I agree 100% Ronald12, as a Classic Car dealer & Vintage Gun dealer, I do Wire Transfers every other day and they take 1-2 hours maximum. It seems as though they are giving me the run around, which has me concerned ...

 

I wanted to share a photo of the box/label that I received from Rock Island Auction. They advertised this 2.5" Python as "Original Colt Box numbered to the gun".

Seriously?!

The gun was a 1977, serial # 71914E, notice the box is a fake 60's era and they even forgot to add the (E).

Are you telling me that no one @ R.I.A. knew this was a phony box/label?

This is why I can never feel comfortable buying from them again. I thought they were a top-notch auction house w/ experts who knew what they were selling.

Obviously not ...

 

I wanted to share a photo of the box/label that I received from Rock Island Auction. They advertised this 2.5" Python as "Original Colt Box numbered to the gun".

Seriously?!

The gun was a 1977, serial # 71914E, notice the box is a fake 60's era and they even forgot to add the (E).

Are you telling me that no one @ R.I.A. knew this was a phony box/label?

This is why I can never feel comfortable buying from them again. I thought they were a top-notch auction house w/ experts who knew what they were selling.

Obviously not ...

View attachment 98550

DH..........
Sorry for your negative experience with RIA - happy to see you received your refund. As a member of the Winchester collector's group, I've encountered stories (RIA and other houses) with similar themes. It's an unfortunate, but not-so-rare occurrence in today's world. Personally, I'll never buy via an auction - IMO it's best to deal with the owner directly. Person to person, or a via reputable dealer seem to work the best for me, although caution is still the watchword.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience on this.

 

Seconded.

 

Two-way shipping cost is gone, but what is learned may perhaps save thousands on some future misrepresented purchase.

 

Approx: $100-$110 in shipping costs down the drain -

However, they lost much more by losing a good buyer such as I, as well as losing the business of those who will read this & decide against rolling the dice with them in the future.

 

I am not sure which one is easier to spot ?

 

HAHAHA - that is hilarious John !!!

It really is one of the worst fake labels that I have ever seen !!!