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When did it all change?

3.8K views 52 replies 26 participants last post by  MitchRapp13  
#1 ·
Bought, owned and sold a lot of guns over many, many years. When you bought a new gun, generally you cleaned it, took it to the range and shot it. It worked right out of the box. You might want better sights or a different trigger, you had to sight it in, but it worked. Nowadays it seems as if you buy a gun, across disciplines and it has to go to a smith, or you have to buy a slicked up gun from a smith or have one built. I still have a few old friends and only a couple have I tinkered with or sent to anyone. Haven't bought but one new gun in a good many years and that, a good brand, went back to the manufacturer. Came back better, but still needy. When did it all change? Around the time you started to buy devices with "Some assembly Required" AKA a box of parts?
 
#3 ·
I think many people have been convinced that when you buy a new gun, you have to disassemble them, and replace half the stock parts with "custom" parts, to make them more rugged and accurate. In other words, they're trying to buy skill. They'd be better off buying a good gun, and lots of ammunition to shoot.

I've seen some used ARs that have been tinkered with so much they wouldn't shoot. Compare that to some old lever-action rifles I have... many were made in the 1950s and 1960s, and they still shoot great, with just some routine cleaning and a few drops of oil.

I don't think it's just firearms though - things have gotten so cheap, that most people consider it easier and less expensive to buy new things, rather than fix old ones. Remember when there were repair shops you took your television or radio to when they had a problem?
 
#10 ·
I think many people have been convinced that when you buy a new gun, you have to disassemble them, and replace half the stock parts with "custom" parts, to make them more rugged and accurate. In other words, they're trying to buy skill. They'd be better off buying a good gun, and lots of ammunition to shoot.
Exactly. I have no idea how many threads on this forum I've read that talk about exactly that same thing. Someone comes along and says they've just bought a new Government Model (or whatever), and within minutes, somebody pops up with something like, "Go get you some Wolff springs, and polish up that feed ramp." Then someone else is like "Open up that ejection port a little and put an extended safety on it." It goes on and on. And people who don't know much about guns, maybe they've just bought their first Colt semi-auto...they fall for this stuff and end up with a gun that isn't going to make them a better shot, but it'll sure deplete your bank account.

I sometimes have a talent for making folks mad, so I'm gonna shut up about this. Besides, the subject's been beat to death already.
 
#4 ·
I prefer old beat up guns.
For one thing, they are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. For another thing, the bugs, if there ever were any, are out of 'em. And for practical purposes, I'm not afraid to work on 'em myself.
I'm the same way with my automobiles. Old bleep boxes are much easier on my sensibilities, and I can do some mechanical work myself......and the drive it to the junkyard. St.Jude's Children's Research Hospital got my last one. It had $500 scrap value.
New stuff can be tough.
 
#6 ·
I rarely buy new. My Henry and CZ 75B are exceptions. Both are so far flawless. So is the special-order Springfield mil-spec 1911 I got on (day delivered!) 9/11/2001.

It does seem that cheaper semis, especially compacts, and many Ruger and S&W revolvers come new with problems now, if one follows the lamentations on the forums.

My EDC, a Kimber K6S, has a steel firing pin in place of the titanium original, a precautionary measure for a gun I bought nearly new. That has been the only service a new weapon has gotten by me, other than replacing my 1911’s recoil spring at 5K rounds.
 
#37 ·
It does seem that cheaper semis come new with problems.
Well that’s really nothing new. I think the only brand that I’ve bought new or used that had zero issues would be my Sigs. Of course they’re all the DA/SA with de-cocker models.
 
#7 ·
The internet changed it. In the past people would learn about guns from their father or friends, or from magazines. While there were a few modifications advertised (Kings, Litschert) most people saw the manufacturers ads, and expert gun writer reviews. Today, the internet allows every person to "publish" their opinion. So we get a skewed perspective that every new gun is broken, and every new gun needs some kind of modification.
 
#26 ·
Well, I have a Gun Digest from about 1970 where the Handgun section editor, George Nonte, complains about the then current quality. And in an old Shooting Times Skeeter Skelton states that shooters usually believe that guns made 20-30 years before whatever era they are in are made better. Maybe it's us. :)
Was Nonte complaining about any particular gun or brand? I half-heartedly valued his opinions on handloading-related things, but didn't put much store in what he thought about a particular gun and anything relating to it. Far as I was concerned back then, Nonte was kind of a wannabe when compared to Skelton, Askins, Cooper, and Keith. Since his passing in 1978, I haven't found any reason to change my opinion of the man.
 
#9 ·
Years ago there just wasn't that much available in custom gun parts and add-ons.
You bought a gun and used it, possibly installing different grips.
Now there are gigantic amounts of custom parts and accessories, especially for the most popular guns like AR-15's, 1911's, and Glock's.
Before the internet, a lot of gun owners never knew some custom parts or accessories were even made.
Now it's information over-load on what's available.

Back in the day if you wanted a home defense shotgun you bought the available standard production pump gun with a short barrel and you were good to go.
The same pretty much held for the AR, revolvers, and most other firearms.
What you bought was what it was.

Now you see posts asking about installing a raft of after market accessories that we're told are "gotta have it" or the gun will be useless.
Today we're seeing box-stock firearms that either already have much of the custom parts, or don't need anything extra just to be reliable.
There are some brands and types of firearms that are perfectly good right out of the box.

Fact is, since people were carrying clubs or swords, there has been a desire to make a weapon "mine" and different from others. This was usually cosmetic, such as engraving or carving, not it's add-on parts.
 
#11 ·
well, hang on to your stetson; it all started with george westinghouse inventing the railway air brake system. it went down hill after that. piower brakes, power steering on vehicles, automatic transmissions, allowing one half (the underpriviiged) of the population to move about the country and organize. a 220 pound teamster was no longer required to transfer these lucky persons from place to place. the world will never be the same.

bro
 
#12 ·
I haven't bought a new gun in many years and have never understood the urge to mod mod and mod. Used guns have character. I look at a Colt made in 2022 and one made in 1966 and I have no absolutely no questions about which one I want, original in the box no mods except the grips and I'm sure you know why.

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#18 ·
I haven't bought a new gun in many years and have never understood the urge to mod mod and mod. Used guns have character. I look at a Colt made in 2022 and one made in 1966 and I have no absolutely no questions about which one I want, original in the box no mods except the grips and I'm sure you know why.

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Lest this turn into a "new guns stink" thread, let me say I've had my share of new guns... everything from the latest and greatest polymer guns to the latest offerings of Colt, such as the new Pythons, M4s, and so on. New is not a bad thing, as long as it's a quality item.

I have all the new guns I want now, so I look for older guns. It's something that's much more satisfying, because there's nothing quite like coming across an older gun that others have ignored because it's not new and popular. Some elbow grease, replacing few parts, etc. When all is said and done, I have something that works well, looks great, and it makes me feel good having recycled something that someone discarded.

My latest project gun is a 1964 Winchester Model 94 in .30-.30. It has a bit of "character", but I got it extremely cheap because it was very dirty and missing the buttplate. I hunted down a buttplate and screws for $50, and invested a few hours into cleaning it up. It's great now. I can think of a lot worse ways to spend a Saturday afternoon. :)
 
#13 ·
With Colt, it seemed to start in the 1970s, during their protracted battle with UAW..... things started going downhill from there. The first 80 Series Government model I bought, had decent lettering on the slide like the 70 series- though even that didn't hold a candle to the pre 70 "commercial" guns . A friend had a prewar government model, and my God...the slide looked like a blue mirror compared to what I was used to...
Then, mid 80s, they stopped "breaking" the lettering on the slides, and the guns just looked like hell. I even got into it on the phone with a manager at Colt in 1991, during a call about a SAA NF I'd sent back for refinish, got off the subject long enough to tell him they needed to start doing the slides like they used to, make a Colt look like a Colt. Something's wrong when the slide of an Auto Ordnance looks better than a Colt......
Evidently, they didn't listen to me......
 
#16 ·
My son road back and forth to school with a friend that had an older model Toyota. He never modified the engine or running gear, but had every do-dad he could find a place to attach it. It didn't run any better, but it was his idea of the perfect Toyota.

It's nickname was the "J.C. Whitney Limited Edition Toyota", for those that remember the old J.C. Whitney automotive accessory catalogs.
 
#19 ·
I've bought a couple of new guns in the past couple of years with no problems. I love my 2020 python. You have to think about the sheer number of guns that get pumped out and you hear about the handful of bad ones.

I will say this. I'm not buying a new S&W until they get set up in Tennessee and I'd advise you of the same. A good friend of mine retired about a year from being a salesman at S&W. He said they are having QC problems because after they announced the pending move, their long time employees are leaving in droves to find other jobs because they can't/won't move with the company. So a good chunk of their manufacturers and inspectors are either new or temps.

My department bought 700 new M&Ps with RDS slides and they don't hold a candle to the M&P 2.0s we replaced. Dozens had to be sent back, sights drifting all over the place, mushy triggers and resets compared to the super crisp ones on the 2.0, etc.
 
#23 ·
I remember back in the 1970's when some guns from major manufacturers didn't work out of the box. Remember Handgun Tests and Pistolero magazines? I will say one thing about some new guns: factory night sights, set up for optical sights, threaded barrels, ambidextrous controls, calber conversions, light mounting rails, adjustable back straps, factory extended magazines......well several things....
 
#24 · (Edited)
I seem to recall reading one of those mags. IIRC, they didn't take gun ads. They claimed "no BS or gun ads". They were something of a mustang group and really gave it to some of the manufactures with straight talk about short comings.
One of the writers was a guy named Larry (last name forgotten) who was interesting to read.
 
#25 ·
While on the topic, let's not blame the beancounters. I am a retired accountant. I can tell you from experience it's the owners or the CEO's that demand expenses go down and profits go up. We only present the facts sometimes people are swimming with Cleopatra and don't want to hear that. We seldom make company policy, only suggestions.
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#29 ·
The difference is that people these days have the option of doing many things themselves that once required a gunsmith. Personally, I don't leave anything alone. If there is a factory gun that is perfect, I have yet to encounter it. Everything has room for improvement and/or personalization. For example, I never understood why so many people suffer with factory revolver grips when so many better solutions are available.
 
#31 ·
I think a big part of it has to do with the huge increase in popularity the various competitive shooting sports. Lots of gun owners seem to think their new - name brand - is a POS from the factory without the latest and greatest tactical or competition parts, so off it goes to the smith, or they get out the credit card and start ordering parts.

Best regards,
 
#32 ·
It's a sign of the times too. I just got a new Ford Bronco. While waiting, I was on some forums. Most talk about all the mods they are going to do right away, lift kits, light bars, rock rails, different wheels, and more. Some even get a "wrap job" (paint job basically) the week they pick it up. These guys are spending 10s of thousands on an already very capable vehicle. Same with guns. Someone on the rimfire forum did a poll "how many are upgrading the trigger when they get their CZ?" 99% answered they were, everyone yammering about the different trigger kits. I said, "I've had mine about 20 years, never worried about the trigger, and shoot very accurately." I got attacked for the contrary view!
 
#35 ·
A rising wage tide floats all prices up. The labor needed to build them "like they used to" would double or triple the cost of the weapon. The black and white pics of factory workers 100 years ago were men and even older boys who worked for a relative pittance. The labor movement and labor laws changed that. The standard of living we enjoy is a result of it.
 
#36 ·
I never buy a gun when the model first comes out. I like to give it a couple years. That way, the reviews are out there, the product recalls are done and the pricing insanity is over. Same with cars and motorcycles. I have some guns which are fully accessorized and some of the same model "factory, out of the box." It depends on what I am doing with it. I try not to make permanent mods to a gun, but I really don't care what some Collector will think 50 years from now. Same with my cars and motorcycles. I do them how I like, because they are mine.

All this said, I would never harm a vintage, collectable.