Bought, owned and sold a lot of guns over many, many years. When you bought a new gun, generally you cleaned it, took it to the range and shot it. It worked right out of the box. You might want better sights or a different trigger, you had to sight it in, but it worked. Nowadays it seems as if you buy a gun, across disciplines and it has to go to a smith, or you have to buy a slicked up gun from a smith or have one built. I still have a few old friends and only a couple have I tinkered with or sent to anyone. Haven't bought but one new gun in a good many years and that, a good brand, went back to the manufacturer. Came back better, but still needy. When did it all change? Around the time you started to buy devices with "Some assembly Required" AKA a box of parts?
When did it all change?
Fast enough
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2,158 Posts
Not so much new guns but new Colts imho. I've held new 1911's in my hand and seen machine marks, uneven rollmarks and every other q/c glitch that comes when something goes from being handcrafted to mass produced.
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2,158 Posts
Yes sir, those pre 70 Govt. Models are getting hard to find and prices are skyrocketing.....
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192 Posts
I remember back in the 1970's when some guns from major manufacturers didn't work out of the box. Remember Handgun Tests and Pistolero magazines? I will say one thing about some new guns: factory night sights, set up for optical sights, threaded barrels, ambidextrous controls, calber conversions, light mounting rails, adjustable back straps, factory extended magazines......well several things....
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1,100 Posts
I seem to recall reading one of those mags. IIRC, they didn't take gun ads. They claimed "no BS or gun ads". They were something of a mustang group and really gave it to some of the manufactures with straight talk about short comings.
One of the writers was a guy named Larry (last name forgotten) who was interesting to read.
One of the writers was a guy named Larry (last name forgotten) who was interesting to read.
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1,100 Posts
While on the topic, let's not blame the beancounters. I am a retired accountant. I can tell you from experience it's the owners or the CEO's that demand expenses go down and profits go up. We only present the facts sometimes people are swimming with Cleopatra and don't want to hear that. We seldom make company policy, only suggestions.
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5,966 Posts
Was Nonte complaining about any particular gun or brand? I half-heartedly valued his opinions on handloading-related things, but didn't put much store in what he thought about a particular gun and anything relating to it. Far as I was concerned back then, Nonte was kind of a wannabe when compared to Skelton, Askins, Cooper, and Keith. Since his passing in 1978, I haven't found any reason to change my opinion of the man.Well, I have a Gun Digest from about 1970 where the Handgun section editor, George Nonte, complains about the then current quality. And in an old Shooting Times Skeeter Skelton states that shooters usually believe that guns made 20-30 years before whatever era they are in are made better. Maybe it's us.
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3,782 Posts
Well, maybe there was something more there, not so different from those you referenced (who, BTW, I admire as well!) https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/George_Nonte
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629 Posts
Ikr.......double whammy from money not worth as much as ten, twenty years ago, and fewer vintage guns available means prices go up..... can't win...
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2,219 Posts
The difference is that people these days have the option of doing many things themselves that once required a gunsmith. Personally, I don't leave anything alone. If there is a factory gun that is perfect, I have yet to encounter it. Everything has room for improvement and/or personalization. For example, I never understood why so many people suffer with factory revolver grips when so many better solutions are available.
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20,005 Posts
During the early to mid-1980's virtually every firearm from almost every maker I owned and many I worked on had factory defects.
To be fair, most of them were cosmetic problems that didn't affect operation, but the percentage I personally saw was high.
To be fair, most of them were cosmetic problems that didn't affect operation, but the percentage I personally saw was high.
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3,505 Posts
I think a big part of it has to do with the huge increase in popularity the various competitive shooting sports. Lots of gun owners seem to think their new - name brand - is a POS from the factory without the latest and greatest tactical or competition parts, so off it goes to the smith, or they get out the credit card and start ordering parts.
Best regards,
Best regards,
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11,855 Posts
It's a sign of the times too. I just got a new Ford Bronco. While waiting, I was on some forums. Most talk about all the mods they are going to do right away, lift kits, light bars, rock rails, different wheels, and more. Some even get a "wrap job" (paint job basically) the week they pick it up. These guys are spending 10s of thousands on an already very capable vehicle. Same with guns. Someone on the rimfire forum did a poll "how many are upgrading the trigger when they get their CZ?" 99% answered they were, everyone yammering about the different trigger kits. I said, "I've had mine about 20 years, never worried about the trigger, and shoot very accurately." I got attacked for the contrary view!
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1,266 Posts
hello, you probably have a point, gunners were less informed, primarily, than today so were not nearly as demanding.
regards, bro
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1,266 Posts
hello; yes, it is one-upman-ship run rampant. my father can beat your . . .
regards, bro
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7,461 Posts
A rising wage tide floats all prices up. The labor needed to build them "like they used to" would double or triple the cost of the weapon. The black and white pics of factory workers 100 years ago were men and even older boys who worked for a relative pittance. The labor movement and labor laws changed that. The standard of living we enjoy is a result of it.
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192 Posts
I never buy a gun when the model first comes out. I like to give it a couple years. That way, the reviews are out there, the product recalls are done and the pricing insanity is over. Same with cars and motorcycles. I have some guns which are fully accessorized and some of the same model "factory, out of the box." It depends on what I am doing with it. I try not to make permanent mods to a gun, but I really don't care what some Collector will think 50 years from now. Same with my cars and motorcycles. I do them how I like, because they are mine.
All this said, I would never harm a vintage, collectable.
All this said, I would never harm a vintage, collectable.
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6,086 Posts
Well that’s really nothing new. I think the only brand that I’ve bought new or used that had zero issues would be my Sigs. Of course they’re all the DA/SA with de-cocker models.
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1,266 Posts
hello, po18; yes, and the boys worked hard for good references for better jobs instead of going to cornell for an art appreciation p h d, piled higher and deeper, on other peoples money hoping for a position in a cattle call of hundreds of other over educated fools.
regards, bro
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7,461 Posts
The most common phrase used by graduates with a liberal arts degree:
"Would you like fries with that?"
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